Wal-Mart Haters UNITE!

[TheJake]

Where, oh, where did the money go? The city of Boulder, which could once bank on substantial income through sales tax, is faced with an unexpectedly tight budget. The culprit is corporate development in the east county, which is luring away shoppers who used to spend their hard-earned clams here. The situation is exacerbated by the decline of aging Crossroads Mall, which the community has failed thus far to refurbish and which sits in limbo, many of its stores closed.

As a result, City Council is being asked to make some tough choices, one of which is whether to allow Wal-Mart to build a store in the city. Council members are under substantial pressure from city staff and citizens to do something, and some on council are in favor of bringing Wal-Mart to town.

This is a bad idea, as Wal-Mart is to corporations what Al Capone is to Italians. Arguably the worst of the worst, Wal-Mart is connected with a host of civil and human rights violations that recall the days of 19th-century robber barons. Here are some of the highlights:

While earning profits in excess of $7 billion annually, Wal-Mart pays its average employee less than $15,000 a year for full-time work. Only 38 percent of Wal-Mart employees have health benefits. Can't they afford to do better? Not if the owners want to continue being some of the wealthiest billionaires in the world.
Wal-Mart pays even less overseas, actually lowering the labor standards and hourly wages in places like China, where minimum wage is 31 cents but where Wal-Mart pays 13 cents an hour-far below subsistence rate.
Workers in its overseas sweatshops are often children, mostly girls, who work 13- to 20-hour days seven days a week performing sometimes toxic work with no health benefits and no protection from workplace hazards.
Wal-Mart is pathologically anti-union, firing any employee who so much as hints at organizing. In one instance, Wal-Mart eliminated an entire department-its meat-cutting department-after employees voted to join a union. It now out-sources meat-cutting at non-union shops.
Wal-Mart bullies its suppliers into lowering their budgets, going over the budgets line by line and suggesting cuts. As a result, companies that hope to do business with Wal-Mart find themselves forced to take a similar anti-union stance-and to seek cheap, sweatshop labor abroad.
An unrepentant law-breaker, Wal-Mart has an abominable record when it comes to worker's comp, child labor violations and sexual harassment.
Clearly, Wal-Mart's behavior is not in keeping with the values of Boulder's progressive citizenry. Not one to offer criticism without offering a solution-at least not today-I would like to present a better idea, something the city can do that won't compromise the values of the community to such an extreme degree.

The city should open a whore house. If the city is so desperate for money that they'll consider welcoming Wal-Mart, a whore house is the obvious solution. While there are similarities-both Wal-Mart and whores screw people for money-whores are at least honest about it. Best of all, with a whore house, everyone knows who's getting screwed and who's doing the screwing.

I envision an environmentally friendly whore house built of 100-percent recycled materials with passive and active solar heating and bedside recycling. It will, of course, feature products not tested on animals, as well as a full bar and a restaurant with lots of organic, vegetarian options. We could make it part of the Crossroads redesign to ensure its patrons use existing bus routes.

Because Boulder is so dedicated to diversity, this whore house would be an equal opportunity employer with something for everyone from the average heterosexual man or woman to the pre-op male-to-female transsexual whose sexual preference is lesbian. It could provide the city with yet another option for increasing racial diversity, as well.

Of course, this is all about money. So can a whore house bring in as much in sales tax revenue as a Wal-Mart? Absolutely. It's not the world's oldest profession for nothing. With the right marketing and the high-class clientele-such as Arab sheiks who like to be naughty Muslims when they're not in Riyhad-Boulder will once again have cash to spare.

But prostitution is illegal and results in the victimization of sex workers, you say?

Hey, a community willing to host Wal-Mart shouldn't be dainty or coy about legalities or exploitation. If we're going to do it, let's do it. Many of Wal-Mart's business practices are legally questionable anyway, and when it comes to exploitation, Wal-Mart wrote the book. Why snivel about the fate a few dozen whores when Wal-Mart is using thousands of children as virtual slaves?

There's a possibility City Council won't embrace the idea of a whore house. Some people might think it's obscene. But the real obscenity is the 12-year-old Chinese girl who labors 16 hours a day at slave wages so that we can save 60 cents on the latest action figure-a child making toys for children.

Towns across the nation have successfully held Wal-Mart at bay, most of them without resorting to whore houses. Certainly Boulder ought to be capable of fending off this corporate predator. But in the event Council members actually approve the Wal-Mart instead of the whore house, I propose we give Wal-Mart a welcome it won't forget, repleat with acts of non-violent civil disobedience and daily mass arrests.

Can you say, \"Lock-down in Aisle 2\"?

I hate wal-mart. This is from a newspaper in Boulder, CO one of the nicest cities in the country.

Futhermore I hate wal-mart.

[agriadam]

I have always hated walmart

They were trying to build one near my house but some people put tofgether a petition and got it stopped WOO HOO

But know their just going to build it 3 miles down the road

didn't they realize they maybe we didn't want it in our town?!?!?

[beergal]

wal-mart has also invaded Britain to with its buyout of the asda chain not that my family are asda shoppers we prefer good old sainsbury's

[space virgin]

I despise Wal-Mart. Truly. And the South Park episode about the "Wall Mart" store that had a mind of its own and mysteriously rebuilt itself the next day after a fire leveled it is pretty much my perception of the beast.

[my retro career]

Apart from union issues, what is Wal-Mart doing that is loathed by so many?

(It's a legit question folks - I'm not being a smart ass here...)

[ted]

Wal-mart is the worst! And they are all over the place, spreading like a virus
There was a real good article in Playboy back in the oct. issue I think it talked all
About how the company is the largest civil employer and yet is set up to exploit
Their workers who in turn become trapped and can only afford to shop at Wal-mart.
evil s.o.b.'s and it sucks to hear they have landed over seas!

[TimmyJames1976]

I have but generally try to avoid it. I usually try to avoid any major chain stores, but living in suburbs makes that impossible. The fact that some rich dude is sitting there paying people ass and raking monster profits to bury into his own investments make me sick...and the fact that they mask their atrocities by claiming they promote values disturbs me as well. I think the whole big business structure is actually the cause for the majority of Americas problems, from poverty to violence.

[TimmyJames1976]

Originally posted by my retro career@Mar 29 2005, 11:13 AM
Apart from union issues, what is Wal-Mart doing that is loathed by so many?

(It's a legit question folks - I'm not being a smart ass here...)

well....

child labor

unpaid overtime

only hiring part timers to avoid benefits(yet making them work crazy long shifts - see the above post)

putting mom & pop shops out of business due to their ability to undercut the mom n pops cost

destoying the sole proprietorship (the heart and soul of the now dead American Dream


just a few things they have done

[omisan]

What's Wrong With Wal-Mart?

Speaking of the South Park episode... This came out the day after that particular SP aired: Wal-Mart to Open Store Near Ruins of Teotihuacan

I'm all for free enterprise, and the punk-asses at Wal-Mart can do whatever they want to do, but I'm also going to vote with my dollar and not support their lousy business practices.

Besides, shopping at Wal-Mart is a miserable experience...

[d_fresh]

if I didn't shop at wal-mart, my choices would be even more diminished than they already are....and honestly, I'm gonna shop where I can get the cheapest prices.

where I live it's all big box stores pretty much.

[Blakeimus]

i never been to a walmart

[Tadpole]

I am neutral on the Wal-Mart issue.

Here is where I sway. I see the bad things they do in the above posts but....

The child labor is not forced. These kids work because they can't find a job anywhere else and they need the money. Wal-Mart simply offers them the job. They dont go out and chain them together. I dont know if anyone has been to China lately, but times are ruff. Many fields are still being planted with ox and plow. Wal-Mart is giving them the opportnity to work and live. They pay them shit but the shit they are paying them is the same as every other local and foreign company is paying for work.

Again Wal-Mart pays american workers cheap wages and uses loop-holes to get around benefits and so-forth. But at the same time they are able to offer everyone cheap cheap cheap products that otherwise wouldn't be avaible if they didn't pay the employees shit and find other ways to save money.

Yes they put mom and pop stores out of business if they can't keep up but that is what makes America, America. Free-Enterprise. We aren't communist here people, if someone offers a better business deal then they get the deal. Thats capitalism at work. Take that away and we loose what American economy is all about.

Im not for or against Wal- Mart. There are pros and cons. They pay shit wages but offer dirt cheap prices for everyone. They use child labor but supply over 1.6 million people with jobs worldwide. If WalMart paid there employess more, then there would be less jobs and the products would be more expensive, means less business, meaning fewer stores, meaning again fewer employees.

There are always multiple angles for every story. These are just some different ways to look at it. Take it for whatever its worth.

[elfmaiden]

Urgh! I'm the only one in my family who hates the place. It drives me nuts to watch them hire all the socially assisted people in my town simply because the goverment foots the other half of their wages! If they're so bloody proud of providing jobs for the elderly and socially supported...why don't they pay them the full amount! You know, you can buy the cheap crap anywhere...

I hate walmart so much. A bunch of my favourite little stores closed down when it opened up....

Thanks for letting me find some like minded people. Ha ha. God knows my family love 'em.

Jenn

[Tadpole]

I just strongly beliave in looking at the pros and the cons of EVEVRY story. If juts look at one or the other then one's opinion will be narrow-minded. Plus when it comes to politics and business I try to ignore my personal emotions and simply look at the logic.

[TimmyJames1976]

Originally posted by Tadpole@Mar 29 2005, 01:53 PM
I am neutral on the Wal-Mart issue.

Here is where I sway. I see the bad things they do in the above posts but....

The child labor is not forced. These kids work because they can't find a job anywhere else and they need the money. Wal-Mart simply offers them the job. They dont go out and chain them together.* I dont know if anyone has been to China lately, but times are ruff. Many fields are still being planted with ox and plow. Wal-Mart is giving them the opportnity to work and live. They pay them shit but the shit they are paying them is the same as every other local and foreign company is paying for work.

Again Wal-Mart pays american workers cheap wages and uses loop-holes to get around benefits and so-forth. But at the same time they are able to offer everyone cheap cheap cheap products that otherwise wouldn't be avaible if they didn't pay the employees shit and find other ways to save money.

Yes they put mom and pop stores out of business if they can't keep up but that is what makes America, America. Free-Enterprise. We aren't communist here people, if someone offers a better business deal then they get the deal.* Thats capitalism at work. Take that away and we loose what American economy is all about.

Im not for or against Wal- Mart. There are pros and cons. They pay shit wages but offer dirt cheap prices for everyone. They use child labor but supply over 1.6 million people with jobs worldwide.* If WalMart paid there employess more, then there would be less jobs and the products would be more expensive, means less business, meaning fewer stores, meaning again fewer employees.

There are always multiple angles for every story. These are just some different ways to look at it. Take it for whatever its worth.

uh.....not to be a prick but this has a very pro walmart stand


you certainly do have the right to your opinion, but claiming to be in the middle then leaning to the right is not really being in the middle. you do have some points about providing jobs but slave labor is slave labor no matter how you spin it. also, the concept of free enterprise was created before the concept of big business loop holes. so to be honest here, does walmart have pros..yes...cons...yes.....the pros however are for the few and the cons are for the many, which is by the way, the way th enations finances are distributed.

[my retro career]

The reason why the average wage at Wal-mart is low is because a majority of their employees are probably hired on a part time basis.....which also means as a part-timer, the employer does not have the obligation to provide health benefits nor retirement plans....which in turn, may offer the savings to the general consumer in lieu of low pricing....which may, in turn, drive the local mom/pop business into the ground.

If that is the basis for disliking/disapproving Wal-Mart, fine. It's a good enough reason for me.

I, for one, have not shopped at Wal-mart. In fact, I have two of them, one close to where i live, and the other close to where i work.

Okay, more accurately, I've purchased *one* item from Wal-mart....ever since they opened up here years ago.
So I suppose that qualifies me as someone who doesn't shop at Wal-Mart.

But i wouldn't go as far as to denounce Wal-mart as THE evil empire because I suspect many more retailers adopt the same business ideas as WalMart does, but they are not under the scutiny of the media in a negative way.

I just think there is a whole lot more to it than I'm aware of.

And by the way, anyone who knows me, knows that I wholeheartedly support the independent outlet, in a variety of different aspects of culture/business/arts, as mush as I can/make sense.

Just my 2 cents....

[Tadpole]

im glad you read my post Timmyjames and im glad you analyzed it.

Yes everything I said was positive. Thats because my first sentence states

I see the bad things they do in the above posts but....

I wasn't going to repeat what everyone already said about cons in the previous 9 posts but instead bounced off of them with the pros. Thus giving the thread a postive view and negative view on Wal Mart. Thats why I am in the middle becasue I agree with the cons and pros but wether or not the pros or cons outweight another is purely opinion. I

Sorry if I that wasn't clear on my intentions to post an alterative view for the thread.

[bluepea]

Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one not anti Wal Mart. While I won't agree with everything they do, who agrees with everything any corporation does? I also find a lot of people who bash them to be rather hypocritical. One example- parents in law tried to refuse to shop there because of their support for buying child labor produced products or however you want to put it (ie made in China) but then they'd go stop at the dollar store and load up on loot. What's the difference? People will bitch about them getting stuff from overseas and then the next breath bitch if prices go up. Or else they'll label Wally World the bad guy and then go to the next retail store that does the same thing.

Quite frankly, most people don't have the money to buy 100% locally. Sure, I'd love to do all my grocery shopping at the our food coop, and while I admit we do a lot of it there, we can't afford to buy everything there, then run down to the corner homemade soap and candle store, load up and try to find a safe place (for our consciences) to buy clothing. It becomes increasingly more difficult in rural areas where your selection of local shops/other retailers becomes smaller. I grew up in a small town, so the only place to shop was Wal Mart (and that was still a 15 minutes drive).

I worked at Wal Mart for two years and I'm not sure where the overtime places were located, but I know our store and all surrounding ones would freak out if you touched overtime or if you tried to work off the clock. I'll agree with the benefits thing - I never had benefits, but had I taken the management position I was offered I would have. I was never treated badly, got regular raises and they were flexible with my scheduling.

As I said, I do my fare share of local shopping. I shop at Wal Mart for a lot of things (cuz of their "low, low prices" ) with no guilty conscience.

[kingcrazylegs]

I very seldom shop at Wal-Mart, just b/c I hate going in there.

[Sijuki]

I have a wal-mart about 3 miles from my house... they forced their way and amazing got it built, I am still not sure where they found the workers as they refuse to use union employees and most every construction company that could work a project as large as wal-mart is union.

But as for what Tadpole said...

Again Wal-Mart pays american workers cheap wages and uses loop-holes to get around benefits and so-forth. But at the same time they are able to offer everyone cheap cheap cheap products that otherwise wouldn't be avaible if they didn't pay the employees shit and find other ways to save money.

Here is an economic point of view... You talk of the cheap products. These products are offered cheaply either because they are of low quality or because they strong arm suppliers into lowering prices or they take a loss on the product to force a competitor out of business. 2 of the 3 are illegal. When people make so little they can only afford to shop at a place like wal-mart where they are able to get the scraps of products from elsewhere. I have never seen a good deal in a wal-mart. I have found most stuff that they have cheaper elsewhere.

Offering such a low wage reduces the standard of living in a community. Instead of offering profit sharing or improved wages, benefits, etc. They force people to work for whatever they can get. If you get paid minimally then you can not afford to buy things which means that other people lose their jobs because of a drop in demand, but wal-mart will hire them and pay them just enough so they can afford to shop at wal-mart. Because they have to shop at wal-mart cause its the only thing around or because of the "oh so cheap" prices. I was once told, "you get what you pay for." and its something I tend to live by. So even if wal-mart was the cheapest, why would i want to pay for the cheapest thing?