IRA ening campaign

[IDDQD]

So some uplifting news for the U.K. finally

I welcome the recognition that the only route to political change lies in exclusively peaceful and democratic means

anyone else find this to be somewhat hypocritical considering Iraq?

[SuDz]

I wonder how well it will hold up. Not that I doubt they want to end the violence or what not, I just mean that there are always going to be a few stray loons that wont want to "give up the good fight" type deal. I wonder if they will just kind of get a group of people together still and do it without IRA recognition.

SuDZ

[beergal]

ah groups such as the "real ira" wont listen to that statement. Northern Ireland is such a complicated situation even for the northern irish themsevels, thats why there is so much trouble between the protestants and catholics on their marches such as the orange march. I know lots of students from both areas of the island who live in liverpool. While a high majority of northern irish people want to unify the country there are those that see themselves as having a strong connection to Great Britian (dont forget the United Kingdom is the kingdom of great britain and Northern Ireland).
I think with the recent attacks on London the ira may have come to the conclusion that with Blairs tough stance on terrorism and how he will not give into terrorists (i.e. when he mentions israel and palestine conflict) then the unification process of ireland will be halted. Personally I think there should be a refferendum on both sides of Ireland for the people of eire and the people of northern irelans, after all who is to say that the majority of people in eire would welcome any more people with their current economic situation?

[MeTurk]

I'd say it will hold the IRA have a knack for keeping the rack and file in line, all their doing is laying down arms the group and it's leadership will still be there. There was allot of trouble over the northern robbery, Sinn Fien where looking bad in the media after great wins in the last elections north and south. It looked like sinn fien could become a powerful party in the south and the IRA where holding them back.

Hopefully Ian Paisley will keep his big gob shut for a while and no scupper the hole thing.

[MeTurk]

IRA statement in full

[bookofkels]

As someone who lives in N, Ireland, I'll give my view, there will never be "peace" in N, Ireland, one side or the other is gonna have a problem, so here goes, for there ever to truly be "peace" i think N, Ireland needs to be a country itself, nothing to do with england and nothing to do with ireland, just by it's self, that way no-one can claim that they won!

[OHT1910]

Originally posted by beergal1@Jul 28 2005, 08:33 AM
I think with the recent attacks on London the ira may have come to the conclusion that with Blairs tough stance on terrorism and how he will not give into terrorists (i.e. when he mentions israel and palestine conflict) then the unification process of ireland will be halted. Personally I think there should be a refferendum on both sides of Ireland for the people of eire and the people of northern irelans, after all who is to say that the majority of people in eire would welcome any more people with their current economic situation?

Na, don't agree. They gave up because Sept 11 brought the stark realities of terrorism home to their chief supporters and financiers, the Irish-American community. They realised that terrorists weren't as discriminatory in their killings or as principled as the likes of Liam Neeson and Richard Gere made out.

If they had continued the way they were going, they would have been outcasts, international pariahs, with no hope of support. You have to give credit to the McCarthy sisters for making themselves the final nail in the coffin.

[worldwidemike]

Originally posted by OHT1910@Jul 31 2005, 04:45 PM
They gave up because Sept 11 brought the stark realities of terrorism home to their chief supporters and financiers, the Irish-American community. They realised that terrorists weren't as discriminatory in their killings or as principled as the likes of Liam Neeson and Richard Gere made out.

Good point. I agree. Unfortunately, much of the IRA's financial support through the years has been from Americans.

worldwidemike

[beergal]

Good point. I agree. Unfortunately, much of the IRA's financial support through the years has been from Americans.

exactly, im glad you brought that up mike. It always miffed me the way Some American's condemned terror but were willing to support it and kill inoccent people here in England and in Northern Ireland.

OHT

They realised that terrorists weren't as discriminatory in their killings or as principled as the likes of Liam Neeson and Richard Gere made out.

Im sorry but for me a terrorist is a terrorist no matter what they think their principles are. How can you justify killing innocent people in areas such as omagh, Baghdad, New York, Madrid, Bali etc
thats allowing terrorists claim they have a moral right simply because they have principles

[worldwidemike]

My rule of thumb is this:

If your attacks are against infrastructure (power lines, bridges, etc.), police and military targets, you can legitimately claim you're a "Freedom Fighter," IMO.

If your attacks are targetted against civilians, you're a terrorist.

Thus, initially, when the Iraqis were detonating IEDs on coalition convoys or blowing up oil pipelines, they could claim "guerrilla movement" or freedom fighter status. Even assassinating local government officials who cooperated with the "occupation," still was within the rebel movement realm, IMO. I don't AGREE with them, of course. However, once they started detonating car bombs in markets, etc., they lost that status. They're just terrorists.

Sorry to...er, hijack the thread, but I thought it was kind of relevent to what we're talking about...

worldwidemike

[MeTurk]

i think N, Ireland needs to be a country itself, nothing to do with england and nothing to do with ireland,

I'm not sure N.I could survive as a country in it's own right. I remember reading something about that in history at school. I think northern Ireland is better off with the UK anyway, you have all those British tax payers building your roads and getting your services up to a standard a good bit above Irelands. There should be much more cross border co-operation but N.I will always be different from the south but I don't think that's a bad thing.

I've only been up north a few times to catch the ferry to Scotland. When I went up there was no border but you knew when you wher leaving Ireland because the roads suddenly got better and smother and the van stoped shaking around on the pot holes.

[afterlife3]

Kels, i dont think that N. Ireland could ever be its own country. Identity is a key component of a culture. And with half of the country identifying with England and half identifying with Ireland(i dont personally know the percentage just an example), there is always going to be a tug-of-war effect between the two sides. I have a professor that goes to N. Ireland every other year to conduct research and I plan to do research with him one of these years to get a better understanding of the situation, but from what I have learned so far this is what I can think of.

[OHT1910]

Originally posted by beergal1@Aug 1 2005, 02:09 AM
OHT

Im sorry but for me a terrorist is a terrorist no matter what they think their principles are. How can you justify killing innocent people in areas such as omagh, Baghdad, New York, Madrid, Bali etc
thats allowing terrorists claim they have a moral right simply because they have principles

Not sure what made you think i'm justifying the killing of anyone bg! I'm saying that Hollywood portrayed the IRA in a positive light but the US public now see through that.

[Somnambulation]

I dont know, Liam Neason in Patriot Games tried to kill Harrison Fords wife and Daughter.

[MeTurk]

And with half of the country identifying with England and half identifying with Ireland

N.I has it's own strong culture, they are different from us down south and the rest of Britian and they should be proud of that and build on it. Both Ireland and Britian could benifit greatly from having those great speckers working for us in Europe instead of battling it out. Even the unionists would say their nothing like the English, I'm sure I've heard that come up in interviews.

[beergal]

sometimes i feel sorry for myself being english we always get blamed for bloody everything ha ha

[MeTurk]

Ya the English lads around here get some awful slaggen. But they hold there own.