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Old 06-02-2005, 01:04 AM   #1
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So, France and Nlds say No, Germany, Spain, Lithuania and others (most recently Latvia) say Yes. UK says, hmmmm, let's think about this....

I'm curious to hear people's opinions on the whole issue, esp. all you Europeans out there...
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Old 06-02-2005, 05:39 AM   #2
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Yank POV:

There is far too much bureauocracy in the Hague as it is, and ratifying this only compounds the problem. Additionally, it removes the individual country's sovereignty damn near entirely through legislation, and national ID to many countries such as the UK and France is more important than anything else.

Plus, the most important issue: The treaty removes the Red Light District in A-Dam!!!!
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Old 06-02-2005, 06:06 AM   #3
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oh tumbleweedz you should never have started this topic because now your going to have to read all my pro-european opinions! I am totally for a constitution and it really gets on my euro-nerves when i have to read tabloid headlines about how bad Europe is for the UK and with the emergence of political parties such as UKIP and Verity this only further enhances the problem
The constitution could have removed much of the beuarocracy that Joker has mentioned by allowing for the emalgamation of many traties, Rome Amsterdam, SEA, TEU etc it will slso stop the stupidness of having a rotational 6 month presidency...while this may have worked when there was less member states how can it work when we have 25 through the recent enlargement? I am totally against the idea that national soverignty will be lost by ratifying the constitution, none of the 12 euro-zone members have lost their national identity because they have adopted the Euro. It is my opinion that people in Europe are disattisfied with the enlargement process with what French no-voters have commented on Polish Plumbers coming and taking their jobs. While i have welcomed the 10 countries that joined European Union in 2004 I really dont think most of these countires were ready to join. I think it was more of a response that the previous 15 members were "scared" of what may have happened if they didnt allow for these 10 members to join. Possible scenario's could have included Germany becoming a homegenous power centre moving towards creating a new EU with member states, which would have been against the whole idea of peace and prosperity when the ECSC was signed back in the 1950's, and lest we forget is what is actually the backbone of a European Identity.
Europe needs to recognise the new economic giants in India and China...the EU needs to work together to spur a united economic productivity
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Old 06-02-2005, 06:10 AM   #4
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I'm not sure about it. In fact, now that I think about it I know fup all about it. I'm all for the EU it helped drag Ireland out of poverty and I hope it does the same for the new members.

I don't think the constitution can erode national idenity, Ireland never lost her identity, infact the more they tried to remove Irish identity the stronger it stuck. It's only now when we can be as Irish as we like that we're turning our back on our identity and letting our culture slip away.

The Euro was a perfect example "it'll take away our national identity" they moaned. That was a load of balls it's only money it has made me less Irish, everyone should have it, it's great altogether. It would be great if Britian joined it's such a pain for us not having Britian in too.

I won't hear any of this political economy mumbo jumbo ether, it works and it's only money.
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Old 06-02-2005, 11:11 AM   #5
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I cant imagine a country willingly sacrificing part of its ability to determine its own course in the world. Especially not a country like France or the UK who have much to lose and little to gain from an arraingment like this.
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Old 06-02-2005, 12:07 PM   #6
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I cant imagine a country willingly sacrificing part of its ability to determine its own course in the world
can someone just tell me what we will be sacraficing?? we dont even hav a valid cfsp hence our trouble with the Balkan problem
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Old 06-02-2005, 02:05 PM   #7
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Well, Britain would be subverting itself to another authority that may not have Britains best interests at heart. Whats a cfsp by the way?
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Old 06-02-2005, 02:41 PM   #8
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At home I have a pocket copy of the US Constitution and Declaration of Independence. I carry it with me a lot because it can make for interesting reading, especially the Dec. of Independence. The point of this is that the US Constitution's beauty lies in its simplicity. Apparently the Euro Constitution is over 400 pages long. 400 pages!!! What ever happened to KISS?
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Old 06-02-2005, 03:40 PM   #9
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Interesting article about the "no" side. Personally, I don't know much, but what I can recognise from listening to BBC and other commentary is analysts talking about the implications of the vote, not focusing on exactly why...i think european media is really avoiding the question.

check this
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cf...=74&ItemID=7991

I'd be interested to know your thoughts
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Old 06-02-2005, 04:45 PM   #10
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heres an article on how the netherlands say no and also france.......im glad the netherlands dont need any changing.......there the coolest place on earth right now

eu voters say no
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Old 06-02-2005, 10:45 PM   #11
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If I would have had a chance earlier, I would have been the one to start the post on this. But mainly because I want to drag in my own selfish reasons - so, anyone but yanks stop reading - the US $ vs the E (my sign for the euro cuz I don't have it on my laptop and won't type in 5 characters to bring it up so don't bother people!). The Euro is coming down which is bringing it more into par with the US $ which is soooo good for us going to spend X amount there. Feel free to flame the selfish American (that is going to be spending quite a bit in Europe so don't flame too much )

Just so all us selfish bastards know, the E sank to .81 to the dollar today... actually more throughout the day... Yes, I was happy (again, I apologize!)
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Old 06-03-2005, 06:29 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by jamiepeaski@Jun 3 2005, 12:44 AM
E (my sign for the euro cuz I don't have it on my laptop and won't type in 5 characters to bring it up so don't bother people!)
€ = alt + 0128 he he he


really it did go down to .81 it was at .79 last time I saw woo hoo maye by the time I leave it will be 1:1 I can only dream.....

btw rate as of 2005.06.03 13:27 Universal Time (GMT) was 0.815232


sorry you can have your thread back now
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Old 06-03-2005, 07:45 AM   #13
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Quote:
€ = alt + 0128 he he h
:greenguy: (I knew you'd do it Adam! )


As for the conversion, I got confused... thought it super dropped... but it still dropped... anyhow, yeah, at www.xe.com it shows .81. As you said 1:1 will work.
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Old 06-03-2005, 07:49 AM   #14
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when I started planning my trip it was at .72 so .81 is a lot better for me but it has gone up since this morning it is now at 0.814070 ....
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Old 06-03-2005, 08:10 AM   #15
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Quote:
Well, Britain would be subverting itself to another authority that may not have Britains best interests at heart.
How??? We still set our own interest rates and tax's. I think, they go on about it non stop on the news anyway. We're still in control of our economy we just have to make sure it's in line with the rest of Europe, I don't see where the problem is.

I'm living with the Euro and I haven't seen any problems with it so far. The beifits of the Euro are great no exchange rates, no hassle and seeing foriegn contrys on your coins can be inspiring.

But I know nothing about the constitution the Irish government will probably wait until the last minute as usual to send out all the information.

Quote:
Apparently the Euro Constitution is over 400 pages long.
That sounds about right, reems and reems of shit, it was writen up under Irelands time in charge after all.

Copy and paste for Jamie €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ I have a special Euro button I don't think they have it in Britian though.
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Old 06-03-2005, 08:21 AM   #16
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Is it true that the netherlands would only be able to sell dope to deutsch nationals if the constitution went through?
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Old 06-03-2005, 10:37 AM   #17
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cfsp is the common foreign and security policy
and no we dont have a euro button (sob sob) just a silly $$$$$$$$$$$$$ button ha ha


Quote:
The point of this is that the US Constitution's beauty lies in its simplicity
wasnt the reason your constitution was so short a couple of pages or so was because when it was wrote up America only had 3 million citizens compare that to the amount of citizens in Europe which i think there is around 4 million or so of course are constitution would be quantitively larger.

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Britain would be subverting itself to another authority that may not have Britains best interests at heart.
i cannot comprehend that Britain will ever subvert itself to losing qmv on important issues such as cfsp unless we get a credible figure such as xavier solano
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Old 06-03-2005, 10:54 AM   #18
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i should have just added this photo to show you how committed i am to the eu...i picked this up in Budapest last year

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Old 06-03-2005, 10:56 AM   #19
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lol i never realised that photo would be so big...unfortunately i just noticed something in the right hand corner that shouldnt be there lol i swear its my brothers!!
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Old 06-03-2005, 11:47 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by beergal1@Jun 3 2005, 09:55 AM
lol i never realised that photo would be so big...unfortunately i just noticed something in the right hand corner that shouldnt be there lol i swear its my brothers!!
Nice cup!
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