Religion - What's Yours? - Page 2 - TravelPUNK Backpacker College Student Budget Travel Message Boards!

**glorious_day** · 02-07-2005, 07:09 AM

wow. first off, i want to say this is an awesome thread. secondly, i want to say that i've been struggling with my faith and spirituality for quite some time now. i come from a family that has always been Christian, but that has also bounced around from one denomination to the other my whole entire life. my mama is a baptized baptist, i was baptized methodist, we actually attended the episcopal church, but i went to catholic school when we lived in louisiana. my mama spent years on getting her marriage to my daddy annuled so that she could join the catholic church (did you guys know that crap has to go all the way to the pope? or something equally ridiculous.....) then as soon as she became a member decided that she was too uncomfortable with what was going on in the church (this was around the time of all the molestation charges) and started going to the episcopal church again. so anyway, my point is that i have grown up around alot of confusion and soul-searching, but also my mama never quit going to church, or seeking, which to me embodies the whole point of faith and a relationship with God. we are human, not God or any other sort of all-knowing diety, and the notion that we will never "know it all" is beautiful to me. i want to always be seeking, always be growing, always be humbled and amazed and kicked in the ass when i start to get too puffed up about myself or forget what life on this planet is really about (in my opinion, anyway): helping, loving, and serving each other. i believe people get so wrapped up in symbolisim, so focused on the wrong things that voyd's words so wonderfully, wonderfully

describe. what i do know for sure is that i have been in some pretty crappy spots in my life (most of which i put myself in, and the worst being most recent) during which i have always been led through by God. and seriously, at the time i either had no idea He was holding my hand or i was willfully ignoring what i was being led to do. do you ever get that "feeling"? like, deep down in your gut, but you don't quite understand where it comes from or what it is? intuition is the voice of God, to me, anyway. i've spent alot of time trying to be humble in the face of all that i have been given, which is HARD AS HELL for me. so anyway, this is such an important topic to me, as maybe you can tell from my rambling. thanks, jake, for bringing it up

**LiveFreeorDie** · 02-07-2005, 10:44 AM

I am essentially an atheist. However, I think there are concepts from many different religions that can certainly help one (or a whole society for that matter) to live life in a positive way. My current issue that I have been pondering and would like to do more research on (particularly on buddhist teachings...maybe I have spent too much time in Asia lately lol) has to do with comparing certain Christian beliefs with certain Buddhist beliefs. for example:

1.) I like the basic buddhist concept of karma. The idea that things you do in this life can have serious repercussions in the next life seems to be a positive "concept" for a society to live by. To me, this encourages people to be generous and fair to their fellow man/women (and other creatures I guess) because there is an on-going accounting of all of your actions and if you don't want to wind up being reincarnated as a street leper in Bangladesh then you need to be good to your fellow man and beast.

2.) I do not like the various Christian takes on this which seems to be, do whatever and then as long as you confess your sins, repent or recognize Jesus as your savior, you will still go to heaven. WTF?

I am not an expert on any religion by any means and actually am quite unknowledgeable and so my interpretation of this may be way off. In that regard, people are welcome to set me straight on my above simplified analogy. However, on the surface I think there are a lot of positive things in the Buddhist religion and while I do not necessarily "buy" the whole concept of Karma literally....it provides a nice set of rules to live by. Ultimately however, I live my life by my own sense of right and wrong and fairness but always treat everyone's beliefs with a great deal of respect. Religion in spirtuality is very personal and so I do not think anyone can rightly comment on someone elses set of beliefs UNLESS certain religious beliefs infringe on other's rights to life and happiness. Good thread!!

**omisan** · 02-07-2005, 10:53 AM

linen_boy · 02-07-2005, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rozza@Feb 6 2005, 09:52 PM
i believe that there is nothing which is not within human understanding,

and that there is nothing that people shouldn't meddle with,

Thats a very dangerous concept, its why the world is being destroyed under our noses.

Personally i was born and brought up a Catholic and respect every persons views on religion.

**TheJake** · 02-07-2005, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by omisan@Feb 7 2005, 11:53 AM

Is that your religion omi?

Man i had no idea this thread would rock the house this much! You guys are awesome.

Oh and for those wondering about Genesis chapters 1-5 check out
Answers in Genesis A bunch of creationists that attempt to provide a biblical answer to every evolutionists theory.

Betchya didnt even know there was such a thing huh?

**glorious_day** · 02-07-2005, 12:28 PM

Quote:

2.) I do not like the various Christian takes on this which seems to be, do whatever and then as long as you confess your sins, repent or recognize Jesus as your savior, you will still go to heaven. WTF?

well, i know exactly what you are talking about livefree, but i have never actually met any real Christian that really believed in the notion whole-heartedly. just like any other religion, Christianity can be interpreted very simplisticly to mean some jakced up stuff. actually, i think Christianity is even more so inclined to having this happen because its concept DOES sound so simple: Christ is your savior, accept Him as that and you're home free! but really, it's much more complicated than that. i believe the whole point of following Christ is to live like He did and try to learn and grow from His ideas, not follow blindly so that you can microwave the cat and still keep your ticket to heaven. Christ was and is a teacher, just as buddha and mohammed. believe me, i used to take such an issue over the whole "be saved and then you can do as you please" thing but now i've come to realize that accepting the teachings and way of Christ is the easiest damn beginning to a long, long, difficult road towards enlightenment. really, the similarities between Buddhism and Christianity are many. they are just coming from different cultural backgrounds. buddha and Jesus would have been friends, don't you think?

**TheJake** · 02-07-2005, 12:35 PM

I've met more than a few Christian Buddhists in my day.

**TimmyJames1976** · 02-07-2005, 12:48 PM

Actually, the whole repentence thing is slightly misunderstood. Im many Christian based sects there is a concept known as predetermination, so even if you do repent you may still be predetermined to not be one of the saved...kinda messed up huh

ill have to delve inot this more when im home..very interesting thread

**TimmyJames1976** · 02-07-2005, 12:56 PM

oh...also, i briefly checked out that website and it is actually based on circular reasoning which of course is a fallacy, so there are inert logical flaws with any answer given...but it is useful to further some ideas...but it in no way can stand as prrof...cool site though

lone dawg · 02-07-2005, 12:57 PM

I am a Christian. I believe that Jesus was God who became a man to atone for the sins of the world. I believe that the Bible is God's guide book for our lives. I believe that God will give eternal life to those who believe on His Name and live by His commandments according to the light that they have recieved. I try not to judge those to do not believe or live as I do because only God knows what truth anyone has had the chance to know, and because I know that my own life falls far short of what God expects of me. I always try to look at the best in people even if I don't like them. I believe that to follow Christ is walk the lonely path between much of the church and the world. Too many Christians are more concerned with the approval of other Christians than with living the way God wants them to. They are uncomfortable in the company nonbelievers, and will be suspicious of you if you are not. Nonbelievers, on the other hand will think that you take this whole "church thing" a little to seriously, wonder why you won't laugh at some of their jokes, won't go certain places with them. I wasn't raised Christian myself, so I suppose that allows me to identify better with non-Christians. God sees far more in you than what you believe. Christianity, before it is a way of living or a set of doctrines, is a state of the soul.

**TheJake** · 02-07-2005, 01:03 PM

I can and would love to answer any and all questions, myths or whatnot about Christianity. The same goes for Phinehas.
Predestination I do happen to believe in because of how often it is mentioned throughout the Pauline epistles in the new testament. It's a cold hard part of Christianity that a supposedly all-loving God would deny people the chance to be part of what he offers. Like an exclusive club or something.

Thats where the confusiion comes in. According to scripture it isn't that God so much chooses who will be saved as that He already knows. Part of being God i guess is being all-knowing (Omniscience) and not being encompassed by time.

So if in fact God is not encompassed by time and He is all knowing than you can see how he would already know whether or not someone would accept him. It's like a parrellel universe or something crazy.

We used to explain it like this.
You are standing in front of a door. You open the door and walk through. You close the door. On the back of the door there is a sign that says "You were chosen." Although it was you who made the decision to open the door and walk through God already knew that you would.

There are some churches that interpret this to mean that they can stay to themselves and not tell the world about what they believe. That God will do it by himself. That since people are pre-destined then what's the point.

The point my friends is that when you become a Christian and believe what Jesus saved you from, you can't help but tell everyone you know and meet. That love that wells up just spills over into the streets.

So finally it comes down to this. Pre-destination is essentially a mute point. It is a finite minds stab at understanding something infinite.
Live Life. Love God. Share your beliefs.
(not with a bible bat though! it doesnt work well

)

Oh and never forget it was Jesus who turned the water into wine

**TheJake** · 02-07-2005, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TimmyJames1976@Feb 7 2005, 01:56 PM
oh...also, i briefly checked out that website and it is actually based on circular reasoning which of course is a fallacy, so there are inert logical flaws with any answer given...but it is useful to further some ideas...but it in no way can stand as prrof...cool site though

right exactly right timmy

Their entire basis for arguement is based on a book that itself requires faith to believe in. They do use science quite a bit on there though as far as arguing carbon dating and whatnot.

Oh and I would also like to add that God made mary jane.

**space virgin** · 02-07-2005, 02:52 PM

Voyd:

-- that was absolutely perfect. Thanks.

I have a hard time expressing myself on this subject without getting antsy, because I've been around a lot of people who were not just Christian, they were hard-core scary fundamentalists. Of course I know perfectly well that they represent only a tiny minority of the general "Christian" population. But the absolute non-stop attempts at converting other people didn't just get to be annoying and distracting, it honestly seemed like a dangerous way to live. I asked one girl why she felt like Every. Single. Conversation. had to include some question about the other person's faith and she looked at me, with perfect sincerity, and said "because if I pass up one opportunity to spread the word of God, I will go to hell." It was spooky. My general experience with Christianity has been not great. I don't necessarily blame the RELIGION itself for that-- it gets taken out of context by some practitioners.

My mom raised my brother and I to question *everything*, which is why I guess I don't subscribe to a specific religious doctrine. I would say that I follow "moral guidelines", and if anything, my spiritual thoughts lean way more towards eastern philosophy.

**TimmyJames1976** · 02-07-2005, 04:52 PM

What it really comes down to is morals and ethics are not bad things. spirituality is not a bad thing. organized religion is not a bad thing, but it can easily morph into a bad thing. how? organized religion births extremists; not just terrorists, but extremists on both sides. i am sick and tired of people killing others in the name of their god, and also, people telling me that i can't do this, or i can't see that, or i can't say this because their god says its a sin. the most f'ed up thing about religion is how in almost all mainstream, and a lot of minor religions probably, judgment is supossed to be passed, AND ONLY PASSED, by the god that is worshipped, however, the way it really happens is that the followers most definatly judge others on whether or not they too have similar beliefs, how they live, if they are gay or straight, if they drink, if the curse, if they don't attend some sort of ritual regularly, if they have long hair, if they eat meat, if they blah blah blah and so on. lets face it, religion came to be as a way to explain the unexplainable happenings, i.e. the sun rising and setting, the seasons, life and death, rain, etc. it has since evolved, thus todays religion is not the same as the religion of many years ago, ergo, WE changed religion. religion is a creation of people, not of god's and if you believe in a god or god's then so be it, there is absolutly nothing wrong with that, but remember, you are not the judge, jury and executioner when it comes to your desired religion, your diety is, and also, if a christian is offended by someone who is not a believer, a non-believer is as equally offened by a christian(or whoever, just using christian as example) pushing their beliefs onto them. last but not least, it was no coincidence the 10 commandments were blunt, and general. they are not based on religion. they are based on morals, and respect for others. Don't kill. christians don't kil christians. jews don't kill jews. christians don't kill jews. muslims don't kill muslims. jews don't kill etc. etc. etc.

and last but not least, let the force be with you

**kingcrazylegs** · 02-07-2005, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by omisan@Feb 7 2005, 12:53 PM

Good call my friend! That is exactly what a conversation about religion makes me think.."I need a drink".

I guess I'll make a stab at answering Jake's question instead of just goofing around.................(oh boy

)...........

I believe life is a journey and I believe that it is all about searching, mostly deep within myself and within others, and in finding something greater outside of myself. I believe that the choices I make are very important spiritually, not so much in the "what" of my choices but the "why" and "how".

I believe that everything that happens in my life has meaning and purpose, and that a huge part of my journey is figuring out what that meaning is. I believe in truth and that it is truth that will make me truly free, but I beleive that truth is a little bit different for each person depending where they are at in their life. I believe that everything that I go through teaches me something and that I have a lot to learn.

I believe that there is something greater outside of myself and believe there is a creating and life-giving force behind the world as I know it. I believe that I can tap into that creating and life giving force. I believe in spiritual energy and believe there is a spirit within every human being. For me this is what I mean when I tell someone I believe in God.

I have never found one religion that makes perfect sense for me or that I feel I can believe all the doctrines of. There are certain aspects of Christianity that make more sense to me then any other spiritual philosophy (though Budist though is a close second for me.) I do not adher to Christianity strickly, but there is enough within that particular faith for me to consider myself a christian of sorts....but not a religious one, only a spiritual one. This is why I have often worked for Christian non-profits, b/c I feel I am free to grow and journey and help others continue their journey in one way or another.

This is what I believe...si, credo

**TheJake** · 09-02-2005, 03:49 AM

bumpity bump bump

**Mocassin** · 09-02-2005, 08:04 AM

Oh Voyd I love you!

I believe in the God father!

hehehehh....

**The Monsignor** · 09-02-2005, 08:49 AM

< I'm an ordained Heathen High Priest...

Literally, though, I find the concept of an all-knowing-all-powerful being simply doesn't fit my world view.

I choose to believe that I, and only I am responsible for my own behavior, and there is no magical absolution for my sins. My sins are mine, and the penance for them, is therefore, mine! I don't think God is watching my every move. I firmly believe in the twin principals of Divine Indifference and Divine Whimsey. God doesn't care that I am wearing my green socks today and fought with my girlfriend and didn't buy flowers to apologize. When God does pay attention to us mortals, it's for his own amusement or ineffable purposes, and generally doesn't turn out well for the object of his attention (look at Job, for example!)

My beliefs tend more towards 'pan-theistic' because I believe in the possibility that they're all correct. (even the bible says things like "Thou shalt have no other gods before me, for I am a jealous god..." which certainly implies the existence of others, and the possibility of competition over followers)

I'm definitely with Voyd on the whole thing... there are many paths, and many maps... they attempt to define the terrain, and help you choose the route. They're not altering the terrain!

Beyond that, I don't think that this here life is all there is.

scorpricorn · 09-03-2005, 04:21 PM

I am a Pagan.

I believe in one source of divine power and I see it as male & female. A god and a goddess.
I do NOT believe in hell or the devil.
I believe in reincarnation.
I believe in being able to manipulate energy and one's one will in order to get what you want (aka magick - but not that stupid shit on The Craft. research before you make fun of me :P )
I do not worship nature, but I put emphasis on honoring it and using it in ritual.
I believe in many different planes or levels of reality. I also believe in several different types of spirits/beings/whatever you want to call them.
I don't think everyone else is wrong.

**TERI** · 09-03-2005, 11:45 PM

I'm with Scorpricorn on this one.

But it does bug the heck out of me when people try to "push " their religion on other people.