Hamas

[goyincognito]

This is what everyone feared but what was all but known by the polls leading into the elections. There was a bit of the fog of war effect this morning - I eagerly grabbed the paper to find out if Hamas indeed pulled off what everyone said was impossible--to unseat Yaser Arafat's Fatah "resistance" party and shift the Palestinian Authority to a regime run entirely by fundamentalist Muslim terrorists.

Well, according to the morning paper, it didn't happen - they reported a large Hamas minority but Fatah firmly in control.

Sigh of relief, right? Wrong.

They finished counting a few hours ago, and Hamas not only won, but it completely devestated the Fatah party, getting almost twice the seats in parliament and establishing a massive majority. The entire Palestinian Authority cabinet, including Prime Minister Abu Qid has resigned, and now acting-chairman Mahmood Abbas (Abu Mazen) is considering resignation as well.

Where does that leave us? In the middle of a shit-storm.

But...there is always hope. Some analysts (including veteran Israeli Defense Forces counter-terrorist analysts) are saying that Hamas, though riding the "reform" and "destroy Israel" rhetoric straight to the bank, will quickly succumb to the status quo and inevitably give in.

Yaser Arafat and Fatah tried the resistance/terrorism platform for decades. It doesn't work, Muslim or not Muslim, and Hamas will probably end up the fundamentalist Islamist Fatah (status quo with fundamentalist Muslim rhetoric thrown on top for good measure). I'm just worried about how much warfare and death and misery it's going to take for them to realize this.

To any of y'all praying folk, I wouldn't mind if you prayed a bit for me and everyone else living here in this time of chaos and change... Between this and the disengagement, nobody really knows what's going to happen..

[Somnambulation]

Well, at least the battle lines are clearly drawn rather than before with the Palestinian Authority half assed standing for peace and secretly trying to undermine it.

[bellelass]

I studied Hamas, Fatah, The PA, and terrorism quite a lot last semester.. I dont think its a bad thing at all that they won, in fact it could be quite a good thing in the long run. My professor thinks so too. (yeah I went and saw him in office hours to talk about it even though I dont have a class with him anymore...)

[xanthuos]

I laugh at the fact that the US is supposedly in Iraq to "spread freedom" and "support democracy." Here, you have Hamas being elected in a perfect democratic exercise...I'm not sure what's best for the region, but I can't fault the Palestinians for electing a Hamas majority, especially with my limited knowledge of Fatah's corruption.

[Somnambulation]

What was your professor's reasoning?

[worldwidemike]

I also am wondering if it will be a good thing in the long run.

One reason: Wake up the corrupt, croney-ridden Fatah government and make them pay attention. Now, maybe THEY can stage a resurgence and honestly try to work for the Palestinian people instead of enriching themselves.

Second reason: It's always easier to be the critic. Now that Hamas has to make it work, maybe they'll realize "wiping Israel off the map" is easy to say, but simply can't be done. Now, maybe they'll face reality.

IMO, Palestinians voted Hamas because they were sick of the corruption, and because Hamas was making an effort with the social services they didn't see in Fatah.

It'll make interesting watching, and we can only pray the goy's premonitions of lots of folks dying before things are sorted out doesn't happen.

It may not be Peace, yet, but it IS change....we'll see for the better or worse.

worldwidemike

[Tadpole]

President Bush stated how could they be partners in peace when they advocate the destruction of another country.

Haha

He then followed up with we will be invading Iran next month, Iraq and Afganistan have been taken care of and the next notion of peace is at hand.

[The Monsignor]

Yeah, for me, this seems awful close to the brink of either that 'holy war' that many radicals on both sides seem to be hoping for, or it's the start of peace, since they now are the party in power, and have a forum to make the change that they so desire...

it's scarey, either way...

and, yeah, the irony of the democratic process in palestine working, and then being condemned by our government didn't escape me...

It's a rough one, though, cause I have a hard time disagreeing entirely with bush.. It is a terrorist organization, after all, and now they have a much better platform to project and support islamic terrorism all over the globe! But that's their democratically elected government, and if they keep it within their borders, we really need to shut our collective traps about it...

[MeTurk]

I'm hoping that the day to day work of keeping a country running should slap some sence into them, they made talk about building an army but are they going to tell the people they plan to cut spending in medical care to fund it?

If they care atall about their people they'll quickly realise peace is the only way forward.

[Tadpole]

I dont know many nations have strived off of violence and conquest. Besides Isreal, every other nation has formed some way or another through some form of violance. (And even Isreal was a direct result of conquest.) This Hamas government could spin off out of control or if the leaders cant blance reality with ranting then they will quickly succomb to the populus demand.

[MeTurk]

I dont know many nations have strived off of violence and conquest. Besides Isreal, every other nation has formed some way or another through some form of violance.

I'm slightly confused by that; many nations haven't strived off conquest but every other nation was formed through violence and conquest?

With human rights and total media coverage you can't have conquest victorys anymore. 500 years+ ago the conquesting nation would try to wipe out the invaded nations culture and replace it with there own. Irish people had to teach our language in hedge rows and secluded areas as it was illegal to practice any type of Irish culture, these days people are against that to a certain extent.

We still expect the Islamic countrys to drop their religious run government in favour of our own democractic system. Which is fairly foriegn to them and corupt in their eyes.

Now every effort should be made to get in quick and teach Hamas how to run a country properly, belittling them in the eyes of the world, calling them evil and excluding them from our click isn't going to help bring peace.

It's hard to know how things will go if they make a balls of things and ruin every institution in the country maybe the general public will see them for the mafia type group that they are. If they actually care about the future of their country they'll see there is no choice but to find some way of living alongside the Isrealis.

I'm doubtful good things will happen but I think that the west has to be the bigger man so to speak and invite Hamas to the discussion tables and do everything possible to work things out.

[Tadpole]

I'm slightly confused by that

Sorry typo, I meant I dont know many nations that havent been formed by conquest.

In todays world with mass media it is hard, if not impossible, to expand like the countries did in the past. However, when dictators get in charge, they control the media.

Dont forget in the past 5 years America has succesfully invaded and conquered two countries. I think the idea that nations invading and conquering others, is far from obsolete. Even in the media driven world today.

What would happen if China and North Korea decided to support Iran against a US or UN restrictions. Do you think things will be as simple as the previous two conflicts? Nope, the Hamas may not turn out to be the best government but all you need to start a fire, is a spark. Lets hope the Hamas quickly disappear.

[omisan]

Dont forget in the past 5 years America has succesfully invaded and conquered two countries.

The term "conquered" there is quite debatable... Hell, let's throw "succesfully" into the mix of debatability as well!

This whole "democratization of the Middle East" is truly a double-edged sword.

The holding of "free elections" in such places looks great for PR purposes and makes it look like we (speaking as an American) are giving newfound freedoms to oppressed peoples. The problem is that the result isn't necessarily going to be what "we" want, but as champions of democracy, we can't interfere lest we look the hypocrite... Not that that's stretching anything. Can we really condemn the Palestinian people for electing Hamas into power when they had a clean election with 80% turnout?

The trouble is that we go in and tout free elections all we want, but that doesn't make a democracy. There needs to be an infrastructure - loaded with checks and balances - in place for self-determination to properly work. A simple vote doesn't establish leadership or a roadmap for society, but simply reflects voters' feelings at the time. In this case, I'd say they felt Fatah (PA) was ineffective and that they wanted "action" people who reacted to IDF advances/assassinations, etc. The "action" taken by Hamas may be wrong, but the Palestinians probably voted for the people who'd stick up for them rather than bend over and take it - the same way we ended up with George II.

[voyd]

Remember, OBL also started off by spending his $250 million inheritance by building orphanages, providing medical care, constructing infrastructure and personally helping the Mujahideen in Afghanistan fight off the invading Russians for 10 years. His success in keeping out what was a world superpower at the time with a poor ragtag army earned him a folk hero's welcome back in Saudi Arabia at the tender age of 29. And it was also at this time that he had accepted US aid to fight this Communist threat.

My, what strange bedfellows politics make!

And enemies...

But then, Iraq's attack on Kuwait next changed everything. Saudi Arabia feared they were next and OBL offered them his services to defend against such a threat. He was soundly rejected in favor of enlisting the US for help, instead. 400,000 US troops soon landed in Saudi Arabia...and stayed. I guess this would be like if Norman Schwarzkopf came back a war hero from Iraq, and offered to help defend the US against some deranged South American despot. And instead, the US turns to importing in 400,000 Saudi Arabian soldiers?

Anyways, it wa pretty much all downhill after that...lol.

Point is - my enemy, my friend. In the world of global realpolitik, alliances and enemies constantly shift like the Sahara sands...and very little can be taken at face value.

The following quote sounds rather contrived, but nonetheless interesting:

"The First World War must be brought about in order to permit the Illuminati to overthrow the power of the Czars in Russia and of making that country a fortress of atheistic Communism. The divergences caused by the 'agentur' (agents) of the Illuminati between the British and Germanic Empires will be used to foment this war. At the end of the war, Communism will be built and used in order to destroy the other governments and in order to weaken the religions."

"The Second World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences between the Fascists and the political Zionists. This war must be brought about so that Nazism is destroyed and that the political Zionism be strong enough to institute a sovereign state of Israel in Palestine. During the Second World War, International Communism must become strong enough in order to balance Christendom, which would be then restrained and held in check until the time when we would need it for the final social cataclysm."

"The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the 'agentur' of the 'Illuminati' between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion.

We shall unleash the Nihilists and the Atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute Atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."

- General Albert Pike [1809 ~ 1891] 33rd degree, Sovereign Grand Master of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Free Masonry, Co-Founder of the Ku Klux Klan and Supreme Luciferian Pontiff. .. in a letter to Mazzini, 15th August, 1871.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was fake, but if it happens to be real, color me shocked!

[chelseafc05]

^wat the fuck is that thing in ya sig

[Somnambulation]

Dude Voyd, that new image does not belong with the other two!

[beergal]

Dont forget in the past 5 years America has succesfully invaded and conquered two countries.

Hmm you get me everytime tadpole...maybe i shouldnt raise to the bait however

Afghans see mixed results post-Taliban

By DANIEL COONEY
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

KABUL, Afghanistan -- International donors have funneled billions of dollars of aid into Afghanistan in the four years since the ouster of the Taliban.

But as donors prepare to meet in London next week to discuss the country's needs for the next five years, most Afghans remain mired in poverty and many are increasingly frustrated about the aid effort, amid complaints that money has been wasted.

Even though hundreds of hospitals and medical clinics have been built or refurbished, Afghanistan still has some of the highest mortality rates in the world for women and children - a woman dies in childbirth every 30 minutes and nearly a quarter of all children perish before age 5, according to the United Nations.

"Thousands of women are still dying unnecessarily," said Azziz Khaza, an anesthesiologist, as she watched a baby delivered by caesarian section at Rabia Balkhi Hospital, which the U.S. spent $1.8 million refurbishing. "We need many more hospitals like this."

Signs of poverty are everywhere. On the streets of Kabul, crippled men compete with ragged children begging for change. Slums have sprung up as millions of people flock to the capital in search of work.

President Hamid Karzai told reporters last week, as his government and international donors drafted a blueprint for future development to be signed at the London conference, that his country will "need years of help before it can stand on its own legs."



Foreign aid has "brought tremendous improvements to the lives of the Afghan people," he said. But some of it has been misspent on high salaries for foreign consultants and other unnecessary costs, he said.
The president said future aid should be channeled through his government's coffers so it can be better managed - a request that has raised fears that much of it may disappear because of alleged widespread corruption.

Despite ongoing problems, the last four years have seen successes.

School enrollment has soared from 900,000 to 5 million. Many of those students are girls attending classes for the first time in nearly a decade after being banned from studying by the hard-line Islamic Taliban.

Roads have been rebuilt, including one linking the cities of Mazar-e-Sharif in the north to Kabul in the center, Kandahar in the south and Herat in the west.

Two national elections were held, one that saw Karzai elected as president and a second for a new parliament. A new currency has been introduced, and the economy is growing.

Some 4.4 million refugees have returned home. Thousands of militiamen who fought against the Taliban or Soviet troops in the 1980s have been demobilized, while 33,000 soldiers have been recruited and trained for a new army.

"What has happened here in the last few years is a major success story, but we are not under any illusion that it's ... in the bag," said Richard Norland, deputy chief of the U.S. Embassy in Kabul. "There are still major problems to be resolved and it could slide backward."
One of the biggest problems is a lack of security.

Last year was the deadliest since 2001, with some 1,600 people killed in militant violence, including 91 U.S. troops. The past four months have seen an unprecedented spate of 20 suicide bombings, raising fears of Iraq-style bloodshed.The fighting has left parts of southern and eastern regions off-limits to aid workers, while a series of attacks on schools - three were burned down Friday and a principal was beheaded this month - has forced many to close.

Another major challenge is a booming trade in opium and heroin, which has sparked warnings that the country is fast becoming a "narco-state" and stoked fears of drug-related violence.
The development plan to be signed next week, called the "Afghanistan Compact," lists a series of targets to be achieved by 2011, according to a draft provided to The Associated Press.

Five-Year Afghan Plan
Updated: 12:28, Tuesday January 31, 2006
Prime Minister Tony Blair has pledged Britain will stand firm alongside the people of Afghanistan in their struggle "for freedom and for moderation and for democracy".

He said defeating the forces of extremism, fanaticism and drug crime in Afghanistan was vital for the entire international community.

Mr Blair was opening a two-day international conference at which the UN was unveiling a five-year plan for the troubled country.

Sitting alongside the Afghan President Hamid Karzai at the Lancaster House summit, the PM said: "That's why we are determined to see this through and why, whatever your challenges, we will be there with you at your side, helping you.

"It is in your interests to do so, it is in our interests to do so, it is in the interests of the whole international community.

"This is a struggle for freedom and for moderation and for democracy and we will be with you."

The conference comes after Britain's commitment of an additional 3,000-plus troops to southern Afghanistan from this summer.

Mr Blair praised other countries for their determination and dedication in joining the UN's international effort to help Afghanistan.

The country, he said, had made "tremendous progress" and the people had shown their support by voting in recent elections.

The conference marks the launch of the Afghan Compact, a framework for international engagement with Afghanistan over the next five years.

The Afghan government is due to present its strategy on development, security, the drugs trade and good governance.

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who is also attending, has pledged continuing support for the war-torn country.

Dr Rice said the US would not "make the mistake again" of abandoning Afghanistan and risking another September 11.

The conference comes as NATO prepares to expand its role in Afghanistan with the deployment of an extra 6,000 troops.

If both of our countries had been so successful why are the politicians commenting

Dr Rice said the US would not "make the mistake again" of abandoning Afghanistan and risking another September 11.

[DoctorJ]

Maybe proper political representation will moderate Hamas somewhat. Agree or not, Hamas represents the beliefs of a large number of people who until now have been under represented politically and have had to use violence to have themselves heard. Now they've been given access to the weapon that levels the playing field - diplomacy.

For peace to reign at some stage Hamas and Israel had to talk, Democracy has just thrown them in the deep end.

[voyd]

Originally posted by beergal1@Jan 31 2006, 06:19 AM

[snapback]100705[/snapback]

Cash meant for Iraqis 'misused'

Large bundles of cash meant for Iraq's reconstruction were stashed in filing cabinets, handed over without receipts and gambled away, a report has found.

The audit, by US-appointed inspectors, paints a picture of the chaotic misuse of millions of dollars of funds.

The lack of oversight had a tragic outcome in one case, when a hospital lift, supposed to have been fixed, crashed killing three people.

The report said US post-war planning was limited by a desire for secrecy.

There were no detailed, overt preparations for the reconstruction of Iraq in the run-up to the 2003 invasion "to avoid the impression that the US government had already decided on [military] intervention", the report by the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction (SIGIR) said.

Nevertheless, the US has allocated billions of dollars to rebuilding Iraq, and large amounts have been raised through the sale of Iraqi oil.

Significant sums of this have been disbursed without any accounting procedures, SIGIR said.

Gambled thousands

One official kept $2m (£1.1m) in a bathroom safe, while another allegedly stole $100,000 from a colleague's unsecured stash to balance his own books, investigators found.

Payment was handed over for projects without any official contract being drawn up or checks on the work carried out.

More than 2,000 contracts were found to be at fault.

In one case a contractor was paid $100,000 to refurbish an Olympic swimming pool.

US officials certified the work was complete, but it later turned out that the contractor had just polished the equipment, which was found to be defective. The pool has not been used since.

One US military assistant is said to have gambled away up to $60,000 while accompanying the Iraqi Olympic team to the Philippines.

"What's sad about it is that, considering the destruction in the country, with looting and so on, we needed every dollar for reconstruction," Wayne White, a former US state department official, told the New York Times.

Correspondents say the authorities are struggling to make Iraq's infrastructure reliable.

Previous findings by SIGIR have resulted in corruption charges against four Americans.

And what fellas - y'all never seen the Catwoman unmasked before? Mee-ow!

[Tadpole]

By no means do I think the occupation is positive, moral, or even ethical. But i wasnt trying to make the point of American success, success I meant it was succseful done not success in the 'Yepee' meaning. I was kinda trying to talk about people still invading other people for control.