Turkey - Page 2 - TravelPUNK Backpacker College Student Budget Travel Message Boards!

**voyd** · 11-16-2003, 08:35 AM

Thanx Mocsy. Call me a head-rancher cuz I live to raise minds.

Why does speaking the truth make you "controversial?" World shouldn't be thataway! Truth should be common-knowledge and UN-controversial. Amazing what you learn OUTSIDE THE US PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM, huh!

:D

**Mocassin** · 11-16-2003, 08:41 AM

Voyd, Yeah...I was not raised in the American system

Let's say you need to stay critical with what you are taught.

WWM, I think I would also still go to Turkey...It was a very popular destination for my bulgarian friends, and they did not seem worried about that at all

**Canadian Dude** · 11-16-2003, 08:55 AM

I would go to Turkey!!!! NOt at the top of my list as Jordan, Serbia, and Bosnia are, but i would love to go one day....

**Diorama** · 11-16-2003, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Why does speaking the truth make you "controversial?" World shouldn't be thataway! Truth should be common-knowledge and UN-controversial

Bravo voyd! (wow I actually agree with something you say! :P ) I'm with ya 100% on that one.

**Sijuki** · 11-16-2003, 07:54 PM

I didn't say he discoverd anything, I just said he wasn't Spanish. Obviously the 'powers that be' didn't like columbus much anyways since America is named after Amerigo Vespucci.

**voyd** · 11-18-2003, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diorama@Nov 16 2003, 11:12 PM
Bravo voyd! (wow I actually agree with something you say!* :P ) I'm with ya 100% on that* one.

Hey, I have my moments...

And I'm really not so bad once you get thru my cartoonish alter-ego.

Sijuki - Columbus was totally lost anyways. He thought he had actually landed East in China, Japan or India - hence referred to the Arawak locals as "Indians." Surprised he didn't call "America" "Asia" instead, lol!

Obviously, he was clueless where he actually was. Far East? Uh, try ~10,000 back miles due east buddy, hang a left at Cape Horn, lol...

Hey, give the man some credit, but he was also sort of a hack.

**Sijuki** · 11-18-2003, 08:01 PM

Voyd,
Yeah.. gotta give the man some credit. Some europeans still thought the earth was flat, and most had no clue about that massive land mass between them and china. I guess if anything he had some cajones for venturing off to where no man had gone before (except the vikings, but even they weren't positive of where they were, and the mongol/chinese that ventured across the bering strait 40,000 years ago).

**worldwidemike** · 11-19-2003, 03:58 AM

I get a little tired of revisionist history, after awhile. Christopher Columbus was an explorer. He was a product of his times...so he was no more imperialist, slavering, or self-seeking than any other European of his times...or Asian or African for that matter! People talk as if the "Western" European culture invented slavery and everything that was bad in the world. That is crap. Slavery existed in Asia. Slavery existed in Africa. Slavery existed in the Americas. All this before the time of Columbus.

If anything, credit should be GIVEN to Western European culture -- specifically the British -- who did more to ELIMINATE slavery than any other nation in the history of this planet.

Ah, well. I must have woken on the wrong side of the bed this morning. Just tired of all the revisionist historians "dissing" Christopher Columbus...

Hmm...what does all this have to do with Turkey? :P
worldwidemike

**Mocassin** · 11-19-2003, 05:50 AM

Hey WWM!
I love Christophe Colomb! Don't worry, we all have bad days...I hope this kiss will cheer you up:

Yeah, back to the topic!!!

**Sijuki** · 11-19-2003, 10:30 AM

I think it all got started when we were talking about how on christopher columbus' first voyage he accidentally headed west and hit Turkey. He claimed it for Spain and it became a big diplomatic dabacle. Then we just got to talking about his later voyages and what not. Yeah.. that's how it happened. :D

**worldwidemike** · 11-20-2003, 03:36 AM

Thanks, Mocsy!

Speaking of Turkey, 5 more bombings today...maybe it ISN'T a good time to go over there. Knowing the Turks, they're going to get it under control, though, and with an extremely heavy hand. Those who they catch and imprison for this will be yearning for something as humane as Guantanomo Bay...!

Anyway, it is keeping up on current events that are the travelers best way of knowing where it is wise to go, and where not. Did you guys catch that story about the remains of Howard Dean's young brother finally turning up? Here was a kid who, with an Australian buddy, thought it'd be a good idea to go wandering around Laos in the mid-70s -- when it was in the middle of a civil war. They met a tragic end, executed by the Pathet Lao.

Kind of reminds me a bit of Colombia, currently. There are some places where -- right now -- it is just not a good idea to go.

worldwidemike

**voyd** · 11-20-2003, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by worldwidemike@Nov 19 2003, 11:58 AM
I get a little tired of revisionist history, after awhile.* Christopher Columbus was an explorer.* He was a product of his times...so he was no more imperialist, slavering, or self-seeking than any other European of his times...or Asian or African for that matter!* People talk as if the "Western" European culture invented slavery and everything that was bad in the world.* That is crap.* Slavery existed in Asia.* Slavery existed in Africa.* Slavery existed in the Americas.* All this before the time of Columbus.

If anything, credit should be GIVEN to Western European culture -- specifically the British -- who did more to ELIMINATE slavery than any other nation in the history of this planet.*

Ah, well.* I must have woken on the wrong side of the bed this morning.* Just tired of all the revisionist historians "dissing" Christopher Columbus...

Hmm...what does all this have to do with Turkey?* :P
worldwidemike

Well, I get tired of "revisionist history" too, but that is what was taught to us in school. Hence, what I seek is actually "unrevised" history.

When people blindly accept/follow tradition, that is how errors get continually propagated and worsened. That's not learning, that's brainwashing. I seek not to be a sheep, but a shepherd tho. So, I question everything dialectically to "break the cycle." Yes, that makes me controversial to the status-quo, but that is the price contrarians must pay.

For example, did most Europeans even think the world was flat during Columbus's time? Or was THAT actually revisionist history from the early 1800s?

And, of course, slavery has long existed in Africa. That is well-known. I'd like to hear more about institutionalized slavery in Asia and the Americas, though? And where all did the British eliminate slavery from (just asking)? Or is THAT really what the Opium War was all about - liberating "Chinese slaves" with opium?

Now, somehow, you took my post as a complete bashing of Columbus's character and Western civilization in general. I guess you did wake up on the wrong side of the bed, cuz you're way over-reacting to your own words you put in my mouth.

I certainly made no such extreme statements of that sort!

Fact is, I certainly do believe that Western civilization has contributed MUCH to this world! :D And travelling has taught me a lot of that. For instance, America's strong devotion to insubordinate freedom and democracy were largely derived from the Scots, who resisted Roman and English rule for centuries. There are countless other examples. Food, culture, music, traditions, ideas, technology, etc what-have-you... When you learn each country's history, you will find some contributions they made to this globe! But, that is a whole 'nother topic... :D

Look, all I want are the FACTS, "revisionist" or not. :D

Cheers bro!

**Sijuki** · 11-20-2003, 08:03 AM

Just a tidbit on the topic of Turkey... did you all read or hear about the bombings there in Istanbul?

Istanbul Rocked by Bombings

iamlindoro · 11-22-2003, 06:36 PM

Sijuki brings up a great point for discussion, but it's one I fear will have no answer besides that provided by time.... How safe is it right now to travel to Turkey? I have been doing a lot of research, and by all accounts, I really would love to visit-- but it's just been announced that the bombers have been Turkish nationals. This surely must represent a small but apparently growing anti-western sentiment. With Turkey's petition to join the EU, this must be a bad time for such things to happen, as it can serve to drive a wedge between them and Europe... well, that's all just diatribe I suppose, but...

is it safe?

**Sijuki** · 11-23-2003, 12:03 AM

It isn't safe for everyone, but it also isn't safe for no one. Depending on our limitations on risk taking would describe how safe we would feel. I for one, would still probably go. I would just exercise more caution. From what I have learned about Turkey, their government is not prone to tolerating such hostilities. If I remember correctly the military there has a relatively strong impression. So I would not fear government turmoil. I guess the way I look at it is, being an American, a citizen of one of the most loved, but also one of the most hated countries in the world. It could be anyday, anytime that such an incident could occur here. (Which it has, and strangely I was supposed to be at, but due to certain circumstances I somehow ended up just being in a conference in downtown detroit. How strange life is sometimes). Anyways, I feel it isn't much more dangerous to be there then here is basically what I am getting at.

I think that is understandable. :D

Columbia · 11-26-2003, 07:29 PM

I don't know how safe Turkey is Tui..nope..but the people there are supposed to be some of the most generous people you can meet. Invite you anywhere they will! Go, converse, eat lamb brain.

gloriaalison · 02-03-2004, 11:34 AM

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or
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Ned · 07-05-2004, 03:24 AM

Turkey is absolutely safe!! It isone of the easiest, safest and most freindly countries you will ever visit!

As a solo travveller, single, blond haired, lue eyed gal I was a bit nervous about coming into a Muslim country like Turkey. My fears were unfounded and I had the time of my life. So much so that I packed up my life in London and now work here. Need I say more??

Alice

butternut punkin · 07-25-2004, 04:09 PM

hi Ned, I would love your ideas. I am traveling solo, meeting up with a tour thing in Damascus going through Syria, Jordan and most of Egypt and hopefully ending up in Cyro. I think that if i am going that far, i should at least try to see some of turkey, even if it is only Gallopoli and a few other places. I am going from nov till about Jan and as afar as I can tell Fez bus does not run and it might be hard to get around. Is that true? I am blond blue eyed Australian very willing to go but trying to be realistic. Any help or words of advice would be really appreciated.

tegan_lala · 01-02-2006, 06:44 AM

Turkey killed 1.5 million armenions which inspired Hitler or something... justy something my dad likes to talk about.