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**joe7f** · 11-27-2007, 10:08 PM

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...icle511199.ece

I hope this ends well. Lesson? Avoid anywhere that uses Sharia law. Even if you accept that this is a crime, the intent is clearly missing.

--Joey

**juliagulia** · 11-28-2007, 09:15 AM

The school server blocked it because it's about gambling. wtf?

I'll see it when I get home.

**maracle** · 11-28-2007, 09:28 AM

Gambling...The Sun is about topless page 3 girls I thought!

Anyway, the cliff's notes is that Sudan is giving 40 lashes to a teacher who suggested the name "Mohammad" for a teddy bear to one of her students, because it is an insult to Islam.

I find it kind of absurd that this gets more press than the whole genocide thing, well done media!

**MeTurk** · 11-28-2007, 09:29 AM

I don't know how they can't see this is ridiculous.

There is another one in the news here about an 18 year old girl who was in a car with the man she's supposed to marry (it's against the law for a man and a woman who are not related to be alone together) a local group of men saw this and dragged the two of them out of the car and raped both of them repeatedly. The gang all got jail time but they're also giving the girl 200 lashes for being in the car with the man.

The stories changed a bit since I heard it first but still, even though she broke the (stupid) law under the circumstance's they should have been more lenient.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...di-Justice.php

Quote:

Gambling...The Sun is about topless page 3 girls I thought!

And gambling!:D It has all the results, times and tips for horse and dog racing.

**BigE** · 11-28-2007, 09:34 AM

This really makes me mad. Very unreasonable and unjust.

The girl who was raped gettung 200 lashes? That's awful.

**lauren313** · 11-28-2007, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maracle

Anyway, the cliff's notes is that Sudan is giving 40 lashes to a teacher who suggested the name "Mohammad" for a teddy bear to one of her students, because it is an insult to Islam.

More ridiculous is the fact that actually, she didn't even suggest the name in the first place, I don't think. As far as the news here is reporting, she asked the children in her class to think up their favourite names, and the winning name would be the one for the bear. So the kids wanted the name anyway!!

**voyd** · 11-28-2007, 11:30 AM

I think she should have went to Kenya, instead.

Not much further...

**DC_Jessica** · 11-28-2007, 11:55 AM

I actually go one step further and am a little bit disappointed in her supervisors or whoever brought her to the Sudan. I'm not saying I agree with the following or understand it even, but:

#1 Rule when in an Islamic country, don't mess with the name Mohammed!

Animals are not allowed to have human names. Hicham is gradually liberalizing, but that still freaks him out. There is a special subset of names for animals and pets. Naming a teddy bear Mohammed is just not cool (again, I don't get it). Now, obviously nobody would have thought to tell her about animal names, but I think a good rule of thumb for Western teachers in that system should have been to avoid references to Islam altogether in any situation. I just think it is irresponsible to put people in this situation without either educating them or taking on some of the liability to protect them from fallout like this.

And I want to know when the feminist counterrevolution is going to occur in SA. Why aren't there women FREAKING OUT about this?!? The government can't lash them all for speaking out against this. Culture/schmulture, they must know this is not right.

**Canadian Bacon** · 11-28-2007, 01:52 PM

Its just a good idea to be careful in the rural districts of ANY country, because they are filled with uneducated religious fanatics.

It's like if some Middle Eastern Muslim dude went travelling in little towns of the Deep South... some shit is BOUND to happen.

this woman was very unlucky... but please do not lump all Islamic areas like this... or with that case in Saudi arabia. These practices are just as abhorrent viewed by the populations of Muslim countries...

It is ignorance, not Islam that is to blame.

**BigE** · 11-28-2007, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian Bacon

It's like if some Middle Eastern Muslim dude went travelling in little bumfuck towns of the Deep South... some shit is BOUND to happen.

Folks in the deep south (my mother's family happens to be from the deep South) do not lash people 40x for saying "Jesus Christ!" It is against the law to lash people - even in Dixie.

**Canadian Bacon** · 11-28-2007, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigE

Folks in the deep south (my mother's family happens to be from the deep South) do not lash people 40x for saying "Jesus Christ!" It is against the law to lash people - even in Dixie.

Right, but I'm sure I won't have to dig too far into newspapers to find some story of how some minority had some hateful, brutal act against them in the South.

I'm not familiar with the laws of Kenya, but I doubt lashing people based on "islamic law" is really the state law. Maybe its some local law.

I dunno... I am saying is, lets not take this one event and then apply it to an entire society. These types of events are not the norm, I don't think.

Its like how "honour killings" is Turkey are practiced in some rural areas, but even the government recognises this as a problem.... these practices are as disguisting many in the Islamic world as it is in the West.

**expatben** · 11-28-2007, 03:37 PM

K. Gonna ask us all to be a tad more restrained lets not go calling any where "bum f*ck.* We can make a point without swearing.

**pinknic38** · 11-28-2007, 04:10 PM

ahhh that whole thing kind of makes me want to scream. I have a foul mouth, regardless of whether I am fired up, so I will try to be eloquent.

the whole thing seems so stupid, in retrospect, you know? I mean look at everything going on in the world... lets forget we have a thing with the middle east and islam for just a moment, and lets look at everything else... we've got envrionemental issues, we've got serial killers, we've got poverty, we've got cancer and AIDS, we've got domestic violence, whatever. seems so silly to get all bent out of shape over naming a teddy bear Mohammed when all theother stuff is going on?

but you cannot reason with people who are so intensely relgious (not going to single out Islam because the same goes for all religious nuts). they interpret the laws or whatever how they see fit, and next thing you know some lady is getting 40 lashings over the name of a teddy bear... it isn't like it was some official adoption of the teddy bear, or like the teddy bear was a real damn animal. if this does not scream "separation of church and state, please!" I don't know what does.

In my opinion, having a country whose government is tied in with the "religion of the state" is as bad as having a fascist dictator. too much close-mindedness and ignorance comes along with it and innocent and good people have to suffer because of it, but it's something you cannot reason with because religion is SUCH a powerful thing, where people are willing to die or act like a complete fool to carry out what they perceive (key phrase there) their god's "will". because they don't want to "burn in hell" for an eternity or however ones god would punish them.

whatever. can't we all just get along?! we make life so much harder than it has to be.

bottom line, things like this wouldn't happen for the most part if people didn't get so radical about religion. religion + government = disaster.

yay for me for keeping it clean, I think. I tried!!

**joe7f** · 11-28-2007, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian Bacon

Its just a good idea to be careful in the rural districts of ANY country, because they are filled with uneducated religious fanatics.

It's like if some Middle Eastern Muslim dude went travelling in little bumfuck towns of the Deep South... some shit is BOUND to happen.

That kind of stuff does occasionally happen but when it does it isn't the government doing it. It is some crazed person. This is the Sudanese government imprisoning her!

Quote:

this woman was very unlucky... but please do not lump all Islamic areas like this... or with that case in Saudi arabia. These practices are just as abhorrent viewed by the populations of Muslim countries...

It is ignorance, not Islam that is to blame.

Not all Islamic countries are like this, but it sure seems like all Islamic countries following Sharia law are. In a fairly frightening poll, 40% of young Muslims in Britain want Sharia law to replace their current system.

--Joey

**BigE** · 11-29-2007, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian Bacon

Right, but I'm sure I won't have to dig too far into newspapers to find some story of how some minority had some hateful, brutal act against them in the South.

True, you don't have to dig too deep, however, it also happens in Boston and Paris. Just don't make the South what it isn't.

**BigE** · 11-29-2007, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinknic38

In my opinion, having a country whose government is tied in with the "religion of the state" is as bad as having a fascist dictator. too much close-mindedness and ignorance comes along with it and innocent and good people have to suffer because of it, but it's something you cannot reason with because religion is SUCH a powerful thing, where people are willing to die or act like a complete fool to carry out what they perceive (key phrase there) their god's "will". because they don't want to "burn in hell" for an eternity or however ones god would punish them.

whatever. can't we all just get along?! we make life so much harder than it has to be.

bottom line, things like this wouldn't happen for the most part if people didn't get so radical about religion. religion + government = disaster.

yay for me for keeping it clean, I think. I tried!!

I agree with you that theocracies are bad. Sometimes they can be just as bad as Nazism or Stalinism. Politics deal with the profane and Religion deals with cult. In an ideal world this would be a black and white issue.

However, I do believe religion has a place in the public square. For example, Rev. Martin Luther King. Many of the Universities or religious charity organization receive federal funding for different projects. There are many reasons why religion should have a place, although limited, in the public square. Moreover, when people vote or an elected representative votes in chamber, their religion, philosophies, principles, whatever, may influence how they vote.

**Canadian Bacon** · 11-29-2007, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe7f

Not all Islamic countries are like this, but it sure seems like all Islamic countries following Sharia law are. In a fairly frightening poll, 40% of young Muslims in Britain want Sharia law to replace their current system.

--Joey

I question the methodology of these polls... 40 per cent? Give me a break. I only say this, because similar fearmongering was in the air when the Ontario government proposed private arbitration, and Sharia law was brought up as a possible arbitration method.

Does anyone reading this thread even know what Sharia law is, and the VAST diversity within it? Did you know that in Sharia law, a woman is entitled to half of the assets in the event of a divorce?

What that poll probably reflected (this is an educated guess based on what I know of the british media) is that young muslim wouldn't mind some recourse to Sharia law for private arbitration... not a FULL resource to Sharia. And even if there was... what kind of Sharia would it be?

OH and yeah, i didn't know it was Sudan.. I thought it was Kenya for some reason. So yeah, for sure Sudan is messed up....

**Canadian Bacon** · 11-29-2007, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by expatben

K. Gonna ask us all to be a tad more restrained lets not go calling any where "bum f*ck.* We can make a point without swearing.

My apologies. I edited that out.

**lauren313** · 11-29-2007, 10:50 AM

As an update on the story, and in an attempt to keep things on track, just thought I'd let you know that Gillian Gibbons has been sentenced to 15 days in prison, and will then be deported back to the UK.

Here's the story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7119399.stm

**omisan** · 11-29-2007, 11:48 AM

This is exactly why I have a personal policy of not visiting ANY country without separation of church (or mosque or synagogue or temple or shrine) and state.

Not that they're not worth visiting, but I oppose - on principle - any of the money I spend going to religious entities. It only helps perpetuate narrow-minded beliefs and practices, as far as I'm concerned.

Hell, my family in Iran has asked me to visit countless times - and even offered to pay for the trip - and I refuse on that basis.