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04-06-2007, 03:37 AM
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#1
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Help me win an argument
Ok, so I am pretty damn good at arguing... mainly through sheer perseverance until the other person breaks down, and a firm belief that I am always right
But occasionally having some actual knowledge is also useful and in this particular issue, the fact that I have mainly studied wars and modern history is not very useful. So I ask you, oh mighty t-punkers.... to name a country with no racist history.
Ok, very controversial issue and sure, racism is everywhere. But what I am looking for is a country that has not really had very racist events in their history, as far as abusing foreigners or conquering other lands etc. For example, England, Australia and the US are certainly out. I already proposed Tuvalu (had to research that a bit first...) and perhaps Luxembourg, but they asked for some "REAL" countries. grrrr. Serves me right for getting involved in (read: starting) a stupid facebook argument in the first place.
So yeah, help me out? Even if it is just for lame stupid facebook???
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04-06-2007, 04:11 AM
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#2
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Certified Wise
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Antarctica perhaps?
That's a tough one. I'll keep thinking.
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04-06-2007, 05:14 AM
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#3
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Never mind
"Ok I'm sure not all countries have a racist history, but a good proportion of them do"
WOOHOO SUCCESS!! Who cares if it's true or not, just the fact that they have admitted it. Hahaha. Then they wanted to know what I had against Australia. My network is set to the Netherlands so I guess they thought I was dutch. Hahaha.
And then I wonder why I have no friends....
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04-06-2007, 05:44 AM
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#4
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Minister of Offense
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Hmmm.. you could go with Iran up until 1979 - once Jews & non-Muslims in general started being discriminated against. Until then, the Persian Empire was one of the only ancient civilizations to have never practiced slavery, and Iran had no (institutionalized) racist policies until the revolution of '79.
The same goes for the Chinese - never practiced slavery (at least, not by doctrine, not sure what you think of binding women's feet, etc.) and until Communism came in the mid 20th century, never had any institutionalized policies against any certain race/religion as they do now. In fact, they've never invaded anyone, either.
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04-06-2007, 06:38 AM
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#5
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I disagree with you about Iran not having racial problems in their past. Afterall Iran is one of the oldest inhabited places in the world. I'm sure they have had their problems given human nature.
I was actually thinking about Australia before western settlement.
I doubt it though.
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04-06-2007, 07:01 AM
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#6
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Minister of Offense
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Dig, I agree with ya there - I'm talking about institutionalized racism, or some form indoctrinated in law. I somehow doubt any actual civilizations exist where some or all of the population doesn't have any innate racist tendencies.
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04-06-2007, 07:24 AM
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#7
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According to Wikipedia, the Chinese did have slaves way back in the day...and they invaded Vietname in 1979. andn tibet in 1950. and nepal in 1788. and tibet a few more times before that, and also into Mongolia
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04-06-2007, 07:27 AM
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#8
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Intersting to mention Iran and China, omisan. I think a lot of non-western societies could potentially said to have fairly unracist histories. At least in the terms I am thinking in... of the oppressers verses the oppressed. What is it about anglo-saxon societies that makes them want to invade and oppress and oh maybe i should just stop this sentence before I ignite everyone's indignation even further and let us just skip and dance and pretend I said nothing
But there is a difference between being racist...classifying certain races as inferior/superior to others... and acting on this- actually oppressing other nations, having racist policies ingrained in the laws of your country etc.
Binding women's feet.... well that is slavery of people of the same race, so no racism there.... yeah... that's in bad taste hey...
You know, I found studying sociology of race and ethnicity much more interesting than sociology of sex and gender.
Well Dig, we don't know what Aus. was like pre-europeans settlement because the aboriginal people had no written language and no recorded history. They were also pretty isolated so I think it is reasonable to say that racism would not have been a part of their history.
But this argument actually came up because I mentioned Australia as having a pretty damn racist history that we like to conveniently forget. We have almost wiped out the indigenous population here, we stole their children, gave them diseases, and then we decided to restrict immigration into "our" country. It was actually even called the "White australia policy", pretty non-pc hey, and it included a dictation test. This was theoretically to check the english skills of would-be immigrants but actually the officials abused this by just testing the applicants in however many languages it took before they failed. The really sad scary thing is that the Australian government is starting to practise this again... restricting immigration to people with a certain level of english.
Haha sorry I'm kind of passionate about and interested in this. And I guess also pretty bored. But this is my last proper day of work!!! Have to kill the time somehow.
btw raoulduke I was too caught up in my gloating to say, cheers. Although Antartica is actually a continent. Though I did find that argument when I was googling for an answer to this myself.
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04-06-2007, 07:38 AM
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#9
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I wasn't entirely serious in that post. I guess my choice of smiley face let me down.
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One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die -HST
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04-06-2007, 07:48 AM
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#10
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Ahh, an inaccurate smilie designation.. the downfall of many a great tpunk
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04-06-2007, 01:45 PM
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#11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by louse
What is it about anglo-saxon societies that makes them want to invade and oppress and oh maybe i should just stop this sentence before I ignite everyone's indignation even further and let us just skip and dance and pretend I said nothing
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I think it is just in human nature, or at least some humans nature. When America returned a lot of slaves back to Africa, they started their own country.... and took slaves. I believe that country was Liberia.
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04-06-2007, 10:50 PM
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#12
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No one regrets traveling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by louse
What is it about anglo-saxon societies that makes them want to invade and oppress and oh maybe i should just stop this sentence before I ignite everyone's indignation even further and let us just skip and dance and pretend I said nothing
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Anglo Saxon culture also liberates. All things considered I am glad colonization happened by the British as opposed to other nations.
I didn't quote it, but you seem to not mind intraracial slavery and oppression as much as individuals outside of the oppressors' "race". What makes that better?
--Joey
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04-06-2007, 11:26 PM
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#13
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Artist of Life
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omisan
The same goes for the Chinese - never practiced slavery (at least, not by doctrine, not sure what you think of binding women's feet, etc.) and until Communism came in the mid 20th century, never had any institutionalized policies against any certain race/religion as they do now. In fact, they've never invaded anyone, either.
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No, the Chinese practiced slavery, and the Chinese have conquered peoples (mainly other Chinese and Asian peoples) for thousands of years. And I'm pretty sure it wasn't all good under the Persians...
But one country with no racist history.... CANADA! (Okay.. well lets just temporarly forget that they locked thousands of Japanese up during WWII and the Chinese head tax...) but I mean, compared to other Western countries, not bad at all!
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FIRST TRIP (2005): FIRST EUROTRIP EVER! UK, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Holland
SECOND TRIP (2007): First Solo Trip! Greece, Turkey, Syria, Spain
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"Bite off more than you can chew, then chew it."
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04-06-2007, 11:31 PM
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#14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe7f
Anglo Saxon culture also liberates. All things considered I am glad colonization happened by the British as opposed to other nations.
I didn't quote it, but you seem to not mind intraracial slavery and oppression as much as individuals outside of the oppressors' "race". What makes that better?
--Joey
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Anglo Saxon culture liberates? Right... so, in order to liberate someone you must enslave them first.
Colonization did happen under many other nations... European nations.
WHy don't you ask someone from a former British colony if they were "glad" the British ruined their country, exploited their resources and slaughtered their people?
__________________
Vincent: "So what you gonna do?"
Jules: "Well, basically, I'm just gonna walk the earth."
Vincent: "What you mean 'walk the earth'?"
Jules: "You know, like Kane in 'Kung Fu'...go places...meet people...get in adventures."
Trips (only counting recreational travel):
FIRST TRIP (2005): FIRST EUROTRIP EVER! UK, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Holland
SECOND TRIP (2007): First Solo Trip! Greece, Turkey, Syria, Spain
2008: China (Beijing, Shanghai, Yangshuo) ...right before the Olympics!
2009: Japan & HK, Southern Spain
[size=1]2010: All over Lebanon, Ibiza (Spain), Oktoberfest (Germany), Thailand.
2011: India (Goa), Jordan, Jerusalem, San Sebastian (Spain), Amsterdam (again), London, Driving from Vancouver to L.A. (stopping in Portland, Seattle, San Fran and all the little stops), Montpellier (France), Geneva and Lausanne (Switzerland)
"Bite off more than you can chew, then chew it."
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04-07-2007, 12:25 AM
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#15
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Sealand!! I am DAMN sure of it!!
lol.
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04-07-2007, 01:11 AM
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#16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Bacon
Anglo Saxon culture liberates? Right... so, in order to liberate someone you must enslave them first.
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Of course they liberate other cultures silly billy... what do you think is happening in Iraq right now??? hahahahha
BTW, were the indigenous people in Canada really treated well?
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe7f
Anglo Saxon culture also liberates. All things considered I am glad colonization happened by the British as opposed to other nations.
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Ok, so perhaps, a big perhaps, the British colonising some countries had a better outcome that if it had been by another nation. Who knows. But colonisation didn't NEED to happen in the first place. And also, let's not give the brits all the blame. What about the Spanish, French and so on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe7f
I didn't quote it, but you seem to not mind intraracial slavery and oppression as much as individuals outside of the oppressors' "race". What makes that better?
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It's not that I don't mind it, it was just irrevelant to this particular argument. And a sick joke. Please, the LAST thing you should do is take me seriously at any given time!
I was not discussing whether oppression is a good or bad or necessary thing, just wondering whether all countries have actively practised this oppression, this racism in their history. The fact that some countries have been "oppressers" of sorts entails that there must also be the "oppressed". Of course, the oppressed can become the oppressers.
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04-07-2007, 04:02 AM
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#17
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Stupid people!
OMG you guys! It's up to me to give the correct answer... Oompa Loompaland! No but really let me think about it.... I was actually thinking of Fiji but then the entire civil war thing so nope I can't think of any other than OOMPA LOOMPALAND!
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04-07-2007, 11:27 AM
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#18
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No one regrets traveling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Bacon
Anglo Saxon culture liberates? Right... so, in order to liberate someone you must enslave them first.
Colonization did happen under many other nations... European nations.
WHy don't you ask someone from a former British colony if they were "glad" the British ruined their country, exploited their resources and slaughtered their people?
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No, I think you misunderstood me. I am saying that the same culture that justified enslavement also evolved to reject the idea.
I'll be happy to ask someone from a British colony.
Hey Joey, what do you think of that?
>>Worked out pretty well for us.
Okay thanks!
>>You are welcome.
Quote:
Louse: Ok, so perhaps, a big perhaps, the British colonising some countries had a better outcome that if it had been by another nation. Who knows. But colonisation didn't NEED to happen in the first place. And also, let's not give the brits all the blame. What about the Spanish, French and so on.
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Today, former colonies are better off than they were.
The former British colonies are doing better than those controlled by the Dutch, Spanish, French, Portugese etc.
--Joey
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Last edited by joe7f; 04-07-2007 at 02:54 PM.
Reason: spelling
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04-07-2007, 12:41 PM
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#19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe7f
Today, former colonies are better off than they were.
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Depends what your definition of "better" is. I do not believe that Australia is doing better than it was. The aboriginal people respected nature, they had a much better idea of how to live in harmony with the earth. Taking only what they needed to survive. Now we are totally screwing the country up, polluting and destroying. But hey, we have writing and computers and houses and and and so that must be better right??
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe7f
The former British colonies are doing better than those countrolled by the Dutch, Spanish, French, Portugese etc.
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What's wrong with Florida? Is this former french/spanish settlement doing worse than former British parts of the US?
And btw, DID the British ruined YOUR country, exploit YOUR resources and slaughtered YOUR people? Are you a native American? Or are you only there as a result of this happening? I'm going to make an assumption, that it is because of these terrible events of the past that you exist today. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Arguing makes me feel so alive! This is awesome. As long as you are doing it in the same spirit as me....I'm not trying offend....
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04-07-2007, 02:10 PM
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#20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echeverry
OMG you guys! It's up to me to give the correct answer... Oompa Loompaland! No but really let me think about it.... I was actually thinking of Fiji but then the entire civil war thing so nope I can't think of any other than OOMPA LOOMPALAND!
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Wern't the Oompa loompas enslaved by willy wonka and his chocolate factory? I mean sure we can say he was helping them, but I'm pretty sure that's the excuse all countries use when they do it.
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