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Old 05-05-2005, 08:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by MolsonGirl@May 5 2005, 12:30 PM
I just hope Bush doesn't ask Canada for some of our resources... * I like trees.*

I also hope they have some kind of replanting system in mind to restore what they're using up.
Oh come on if it comes to that you really think were gonna ask. I'm not saying I’m for the invasion of Canada...or am I? B)
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Old 05-05-2005, 08:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by blinkchick2134@May 5 2005, 12:18 PM
If I think about this I'll cry.*

Bush needs to be in my Radical Political Thought class...but he'd probably think Plato was Pluto and get excited about Disney movies.* Whatever happened to the common good.*
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Old 05-05-2005, 09:07 PM   #23
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Oh come on if it comes to that you really think were gonna ask. I'm not saying I’m for the invasion of Canada...or am I?
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Old 05-06-2005, 12:02 AM   #24
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ok as former outdoor education teacher I have one thing to say to tree farmers

fuck off.


It is not enivormentally friendly no matter what anyone tells you. There is nothing so sad as hiking through a national forest and stumbling upon a huge growth of baby trees. The scars are all over the land from the trucks and trailers. The birds do not sing in that part of the forest and there is no undergrowth to speak of. There are alternate forms of fuel available and this is just another push from Bush to keep the old destructive ways alive.
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Old 05-06-2005, 04:30 AM   #25
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It is not enivormentally friendly no matter what anyone tells you. There is nothing so sad as hiking through a national forest and stumbling upon a huge growth of baby trees. The scars are all over the land from the trucks and trailers. The birds do not sing in that part of the forest and there is no undergrowth to speak of. There are alternate forms of fuel available and this is just another push from Bush to keep the old destructive ways alive.
Well.....what about where all of you live? At one time much of that land was pristine forest too. Jake - you live in Arizona...right? How about all of the massive amounts of water being squandered and rivers being diverted to make Arizona liveable?? There needs to be proper balance between environmental policies and other reasons for land use. Trust me....I am all for keeping as much forest pristine and available as possible....but everyone who jumps on a broad law such as this is a bit of a hypocrit. Wait for specific results of this legislation that you can point to before you all get fired up.

The reality is, nature itself destroys millions of acres of forest with forest fires...it is a natural renewal process that has been in place long before humans ever came around. Forests rebound rather quickly from both logging and fires. Yes it is ugly for a short time...but it is also selfish to broadly rail against tree farming and other land use purposes just so the aesthetics of a hiking trip will not be ruined. A huge part of our society relies on paper and wood products and that is not about to change anytime soon. Paper companies in my state provide a lot of benefits to outdoorsman and others who use the forests for various forms of recreation, including hunting and fishing. Their logging roads are gravel and are quite unobtrusive. They provide indivduals the ability to kayak, fish, huntand hike in regions that otherwise would not be accessible except via multi-day hikes. Some might say that is as it should be...but I would disagree. They leave massive amounts of forest untouched. So...in general....there are many sides to this issue and I think many of the reactions to this law change in this thread are purely reactionary without any real consideration for a lot of potential outcomes and even benefits.
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Old 05-06-2005, 05:44 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tadpole@May 5 2005, 06:25 PM
Quote:
they may replant them.....but how are they going to grow through that asphalt they lay over top of em?
Assuming you are refering to logging roads, logging roads aren't ashpalt but dirt roads.

Every thing that we live and breathe today is because forests were torn down and your nieghbor was created. I don't know why Bush would ok the use of Alaskan National Forests, I don't know the argument for it and therefore can not be against it. I can't disagree with an idea if i've never heard it.
well actually, you can thank your friendly trees for the fact that you are alive, and can breath. and don't believe for a seond that the only thing going to be going on is dirt roads and a few trees being cut down....<taps head..."come on, you have one, use it">
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Old 05-06-2005, 05:48 AM   #27
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LFOD, you are correct about what you say, but you fail to metion that if you take post-industrialized humans away from the ecosystem, it is sustainable. With us, and our excessive logging, poluting, and what not, it is not.
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Old 05-06-2005, 06:06 AM   #28
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There are more uses to trees then just fuel... trees are still the basis of every home being built in the U.S. So the demand for logging will naturally increase with a huge house building increase. Wood is a good renewable source that has many uses. Trees can regrow, it is merely a cycle. A cycle that must be properly maintained.
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Old 05-06-2005, 06:17 AM   #29
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I think the issue here is that it is "The last 58.5 million acres of untouched national forests, set aside for protection"

so if my understanding is correct there will be no protected national forrests in the U.S. Now that is a worrying thought. there should be no need for this to happen, im sure there are millions of acres of forests out there that have already been set aside specifically for logging.

Quote:
Forests rebound rather quickly from both logging and fires.
sorry i just have to say something on this.
i agree fires help in regrowth as it clears the undergrowth, makes the soil more fertile and aids some species of trees in reproduction.

But I have never in all my life seen a forrest rebound quickly after logging.
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Old 05-06-2005, 06:27 AM   #30
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good point...and logging isnt just about taking away pretty trees, it effects many a thing

Effects of Logging
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Old 05-06-2005, 07:45 AM   #31
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this is all we have left. i read that governers can deny the logging/mining, and petitions can do the same thing. bush is such a fucking asshole.

ABC news
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Old 05-06-2005, 09:39 AM   #32
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Dont even start to tell me forest fires are the same as logging...
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Old 05-06-2005, 09:55 AM   #33
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I'll be redundant and repeat that forest fires on a certain level are a neccesary part of a forest but logging NO
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Old 05-06-2005, 01:27 PM   #34
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Everything that is today is because of logging, your office sapce, your apartemnt/home, your roads, your paper for work, and most likely the chair you are sitting in complaining about logging. Simply saying logging, as a whole, is bad is horribly narrow-minded. Logging is a neccessity. HOWEVER, there has to be restrictions and laws to prevent the logging, home building, and other advancements of civilizations from the destroying the society that it has originated from. And thanks to many organizations there are.
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Old 05-06-2005, 01:30 PM   #35
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If someone is so against logging, then go to a tree-house in the middle of the forest and live like a hermit. Otherwise, it is very hypocritical.
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Old 05-06-2005, 01:57 PM   #36
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I was actually just getting online to post about this...IT PISSES ME OFF! As if we really need more roads that bad! WTF?
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Old 05-06-2005, 02:12 PM   #37
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Logging is never done for roads, trees are cut down for roads but logging is done to harvest a large group. And I can't fly, i don't know about yall, but i do need roads.
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Old 05-06-2005, 02:26 PM   #38
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the point is that if we have f'ed up everywhere else and there is only a certain few areas of pristine land left, then obviously we need to focus our time, money, and effort on finding ways to not desrtoy the very Earth that sustain us. Further destroying it, and the many many beneficial elements that come from truly natural areas are worth far more to humanity then wood. when u mess with these areas, you mess with the wildlife in the same areas. messing with the lower species of the ecosystem doen effect us. loggers dont just carefully tip toe into an area and cut downa few select trees. they complete destroy everything around with masses of people, heavy equiptment, and waste. if you don't understand the detrement that these types of doing have, then just look at strip mining. sure it aided us short term but the long term effects are terrible. that is why you dont see it anymore.
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Old 05-06-2005, 03:02 PM   #39
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Quote:
loggers dont just carefully tip toe into an area and cut down a few select trees.
Indeed they do select trees. Hardly anyone clear cuts anymore, all the major companies do slecetive cutting. Its a business remember, and like any business if you destroy your product you destroy your business.

If anyone wants to stop logging then they should encourage people to quit having babies, as long as society grows so will the demand of expansion. If my logic is off on this topic, please inform me.
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Old 05-06-2005, 03:16 PM   #40
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your logic is indeed off. it is a business. they rumble through an area as quickly as possible, then move on. if they didn't then they would not need to further attack more forests. and like you said, it is a business. most businesses, especially ones that involve raping areas of their resources do not care about the area, just what they can get now. joe shmoe company owner could give 2 shits if a tree takes the spot of one he cut down or not. he wants money now. so the concept of "it is a business" only furhers the point that the areas will be destroyed, not taken care of. this is basically a case of short sited big business greed. large scale logging in the last areas of untouched nature can do absolutly no good for the society. it is good for the rare few who further pad their wallets. and about the baby comment, if you read the earlier post about spending time, money, and effort in finding better resource you would obviously not use a red herring such as that. populations growth is firstly a seperat issue, and secondly, would be a non issue if money was spent trying to increase the sustainablitiy of our ecosystem and not spent in buying politians.
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