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Old 04-21-2005, 10:23 AM   #41
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ive never seen priests driving around in 50k to 100k cars.
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Old 04-21-2005, 10:27 AM   #42
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Well said, LiveFree.
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Old 04-21-2005, 10:29 AM   #43
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afterlife...........what is it you want to know about being a n'irish catholic??

also i'm in Co,Tyrone when are you thinking of coming over???
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Old 04-21-2005, 10:46 AM   #44
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Bookofkels, if my professor is able to get the field school set up it would be in the Summer of 06. What I meant by what its like to be a Catholic in N'Ireland is that,is it tough being Catholic in N'Ireland with the persecuting going on? Or do you live in a more rural area where it is generally easy going?

And Livefreeordie, i agree with your argument about fessing up but some of your evidence is mislead. Priests dont have 50k-100k cars. And what you dont realize is that the Catholic church has a rich history which includes the gathering of gold, so the church has gold backing to its money. and a lot of Catholic churches have schools to help fund the church so they could easily raise tuition to get money if they desperately needed it.
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Old 04-21-2005, 10:48 AM   #45
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and also, other churches such as the Baptist church especially southern Baptists churches ask for a lot of money from the chruch attendees, I know because I have attended many and my stepbrothers are Baptist.
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Old 04-21-2005, 12:19 PM   #46
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Afterlife, well i was born in London so i was a catholic with and english accent which didn't go down too well I got picked on at school so needless to say i developed an irish accent rather quick!

Where i live is pretty quiet, years ago we went to our nightclubs in the town and the prod's went to theirs, but it's changed alot now, you still get trouble in the city's like belfast and Derry .
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Old 04-21-2005, 01:33 PM   #47
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Hmm... This link is veeeery iiiinteresting...
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Old 04-21-2005, 11:29 PM   #48
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Interesting that a protestant President looks to the Vatican for moral authority...

The Catholic Church in Lithuania is a real inspiration for those looking to see the Church caring for people. Suppressed under Communism, the churches were used for supply warehouses, basketball courts, concert halls, ammo dumps, the Cathedral was even the "Museum of Atheism" (I'd love to have seen the exhibits there). Priests were persecuted for saying Mass, baptising children, parents were tormented for instructing their kids in their faith. Children were put on trial for receiving Holy Communion. It was not a good time.

After independence, the churches went from empty shells to packed to bursting, and in many communities Sunday Mass is SRO, even today. Mostly it's old ladies, some older men, and recently, young families. There is definitely a generation gap, with the 30-50 somethings missing, since they were the most affected by the Soviet athiest policies.

The priests are either really old, borrowed from the diaspora, or really young. The head of the seminary is 28. The churches are amazing. Mostly built in the 14-1800s, they were incredible masterpieces, but were left to rot for 50 years, and in this climate, the damage is probably irreversible. But I gotta say, going to Christmas Mass this year was probably the closest I've ever felt to the birth of the Christ Child in a stable. In the crumbling vestibule were a donkey and some sheep, and there was straw spread over the floor of this 500 year old church that is still gutted and mostly unrestored. Unheated and lit only with candles, it was probably as cold and nearly as dark as that stall, and even a little smelly!

The churches and their art treasures are being gradually restored, but I can assure you that the money doesn't come from the widow's mites that are given to the collection boxes of a Sunday. The Church is a worldwide institution, and the universal Church helps out in places that are too poor to pay for their own priests and buildings.

But beyond that, the Church is one of the most active providers of social services for the destitute here. And unfortunately, there are many. Communities like the Sisters of Charity (Mother Theresa's order) provide shelters, soup kitchens and care for the homeless, and international organizations like Caritas coordinate AA meetings, run a programme for mothers and children, and provide opportunities for at risk women to earn a bit by making cards that are sold around the world. And these services are provided to all, regardless of religion. To support these programmes, the wealthy are asked to donate from their abundance to help the less fortunate. In that respect, the Catholic Church is no different from many other faiths, some of which even recommend a specific percentage of income to be donated. Certainly, the Church doesn't ask people in poor countries to destitute themselves to support fancy new churches and cars for priests in North America!

I'm not saying that the Church is without problems, those need to be addressed, and I have faith they will be, but the problems arise from the imperfection of the people who make up the Church, not from the tenets of that Faith, itself. As a practicing Catholic, I'm willing to look at the good done by humble members of the Church as the true fruit of the system, and to recognize that those who breach the trust put in them by virtue of their position will be brought to justice in due time. But I won't cut down the whole tree because some of the branches are dead.

Sorry for the length, thanks to those who stuck it out for listening to my views.
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Old 04-22-2005, 04:57 AM   #49
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I was brought up an Irish Catholic and the church used to sicken me the majourity of Irish people might say their catholic but that's just the way they where brought up. Most don't even go to mass unless there's a funneral or a weding on, if you do go you use the part here you go up for the little bread thingies to sneek out.

I spent alot of time thinking about spirituallity and religion and I do think their important and feel the church is using the fear of God to controll people lifes and hold on to power (which they shouldn't have in the first place the catholic church was not supposed to be like it is today)

All religions have the same basic princibles, show respect for your fellow human being and aviod violence. The catholic church has shown little respect for people that don't go along with the way they think things should be.
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Old 04-22-2005, 10:55 PM   #50
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"The catholic church has shown little respect for people that don't go along with the way they think things should be."

That seems a common denominator in most faiths I can think of...

dang human weakness...
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Old 04-23-2005, 06:46 AM   #51
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I'm not a practicing catholic, I'm one of the ones that meturk talks about.

I believe your conscience can be your faith, you should know whats right and wrong and not need a religon to tell you, but i do agree with tumbleweedz that it is only a percentage of the catholic church that is bad so we shouldn't run them all down
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