All's quiet on the Eastern front... - TravelPUNK Backpacker College Student Budget Travel Message Boards!

**lilwings** · 01-30-2005, 04:58 PM

After the media made this election in Iraq into the biggest party since New Years' Eve, it would appear that this was one party the insurgents didn't RSVP for.

Right now, it's 3:45 in the morning on the 31st in Iraq. Ballots are being counted at various sites around the provinces, and convoys arrive from around our area of operations to drop final tallies and store the original ballots before movement to their final destination. I sit in the TOC (tactical operations center) for the Brigade, and hear a welcome sound of quiet. Nothing is happening. Marshal Law has been in place for the past four days leading up to the election, and the insurgents expended all their energy on a series of failed attacks the night before the polls opened. Nights normally filled with the sound of counter fires from our artillery battery near by (loud enough to rattle the doors here in the TOC) have now fallen silent. Our Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) circles over the city of Ba'qubah, and shows nothing but a peaceful city. Throughout the day, video streamed from it, showing Iraqis dancing in the streets of the city, standing in line for voting, and going about their daily lives.

What little effort that was made by the insurgent forces ended swiftly and never detered a happy crowd from exercising a justice they have not known for over 50 years... the justice of choice.

Today a woman talked to a friend of mine while he was on patrol. She told him that she had just come from voting. Saddam, she told him through his translator, took the lives of her son and daughter. Today, she said and wept, she cast a bullet into Saddam's heart when she cast her vote. She cried and so did my friend, a combat hardened veteran who had seen some of the worst fighting in cities like Ba'qubah and Fallujah.

This is why we fight.

**Canadian Dude** · 01-30-2005, 05:14 PM

Lilwings, Just like when Peenk was over there, I think about ya every day. I don't know if my eyes could handle what you see.

I was watching BBC today and saw alot of really happy and excited Iraqies. They deserve peace.

Come back safe!

**Tadpole** · 01-30-2005, 08:24 PM

Left wing, Right wing and World politics aside. What happened today and what you guys over there in Iraq achieved is awesome. Amazing job you guys are doing and cheers to ya

**worldwidemike** · 01-31-2005, 06:50 AM

I agree, guys. The media has the ability to focus on the worst of a situation, then repeatedly hammer us with it -- making any place look like out of control chaos. Just look what they do with ordinary crime reporting around the world. They make U.S. cities look like war zones and they make foreign countries look like death traps.

Congratulations, all our military (and Middle East deployed) Tpunkers! Progress is progress, when it comes to democracy. Even our own democracy in the U.S. has had its fits and starts.

Good post, lil wings. You guys and gals have done well...

worldwidemike

ThunderCuba · 01-31-2005, 04:39 PM

Lilwings,

I have to tell you, watching the Iraqis vote, and knowing that I was a small part of the smiles on their faces... well, it has made my personal discomfort worthwhile. I've been saying all along that history would vindicate, if not our actions, our results.

I'll be out of country soon, but you stay safe.

Semper Fi,

Cuba

**ChasinJason1313** · 02-01-2005, 09:38 PM

What I have to say because it's what I think about when I think about Iraq:
I hate that you Lil Wings, and all the other TPunker and non Tpunkers in the services are over there. I don't discount that maybe, just maybe, a wrong has been righted in the world. The only question is that at what point does it become to much of a burden for us to bear. No one else is willing to run their country into the ground to do this, maybe there's a good reason.

What I want to say because of the way all you service people make me feel when I read posts like this:
Once again, I admire you all sooooo freaking much because you are willing to put your life on the line for an extremely basic and fundamental inalienable right that most if not all Americans take for granted that has, unfortunately, been buried under the rubble of bullshit that has contaminated this war. Either way, you are heroes, and I for one am determined to not allow the aftermath of this war turn into another post-Vietnam. too many Vets from that war were shunned because they fought in that war and I will personally bitch slap any jackass who gives an Iraq vet a hard time for fighting over there.

You all rock, but I'd rather be drinking a beer with you at home talking about all the fighting you DIDN'T have to do.

c'est la vie ( the french have some great sayings )

---Jason

**TheWills** · 02-02-2005, 04:27 PM

I saw this cool thing on TV the other night about the Iraq voting thing and since I study international studies and relations in school I was totaly hooked, and it was a few guys sitting around talking 2 of them were Iraqi Canadians , another was the mediator and 2 more were some random dudes that didnt say much, but it was cool cuase one guy from Iraq urged iraqies from other countries too vote but discouraged the iraqies in Iraq to vote, and the other guy simply said no iraqies should vote as a protest to the American occupation, and he said he full on supported the resistence which was kind of cool cause the host was totaly thrown of by this and was like what about the beheadings, and the guys response was whatever means necssisary to free iraq, the other iraqi quietly supported him, he said we cant have fully free elections until is its own free sovern state and as long as someone is watching over our own shoulder its not legit basicly. It was such a neat panel to see how some iraqis feel about it, and they both were saying yeah none of my family or friends over there will go to vote. I wonder if they really want democracy, obviously some dont, the big thing with it all is, that these people dont understand the concept of democracy becaues ever since they were born there was no such thing its a total new concept to them which can be scary, and suddenly they have choices and some people would rather just not make chocices, its like if the US took over Canada and imposed human sacrifices on major holidays, we would all be like WTF cause its just something we cant even fathom. Anyways just a cool other view on the whole thing thought I would share it.

**TheJake** · 02-02-2005, 04:51 PM

WHOA! who told you about our human sacrifices?

Ok I am not a normal hippie when it comes to war. I like war, it brings the population numbers down. As harsh as that it is, it is the way of the world. Peaceful negotiations have never worked and more than likely never will.

So to all the Tpunk's representin in the middle east (or wherever) Good Job.

As to the iraq situation in particular. I think we should totally leave the country and let em deal with it. We went in for one reason and that reason (whether justified or not i dont care) has been removed and is being dealt with. Now I think we need to step back and let them fight it out themselves instead of imposing our values on them. What KIND of government they should have is up to them.

However I am not so concerned with Iraq or Afgahnistan so much. The middle east isn't a part of the world i care much about. I am more worried about Korea and the ridiculous situation there. I totally think we should have finished that before invading other countries. I mean it's been 50 years now it's time to call it quits or invade.

My friends in South Korea want America out bad. They believe that if Korea doesnt become one again (like in the olympics) that they will be overrun by the japenese and their economy will crumble even more than it already has. They believe that we (USA) are inhibiting this rejoining of nations and that we need to leave.

Personally i dont know what to think. If we leave then they get overrun by the north - no doubt. However if we stay then koreans will continue to resent us.

It's time for something to change. You know we still have 350 bases in south korea?!?

BRING BACK M*A*S*H!

ok thats it from me

**space virgin** · 02-03-2005, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jakethepunk@Feb 3 2005, 12:51 AM
I like war, it brings the population numbers down. As harsh as that it is, it is the way of the world.

Well, I'm sure I'm not the only one who will reply to this particular sentence, but I'll be the first.

War itself does not bring population numbers down to a huge degree. Large numbers of people are more often wiped out by major disasters like the asian tsunami, untold numbers of enormous earthquakes, the Inquisition and a little, tiny thing called the Holocaust. And I for one can't say that I am in favor of those events "to keep the population down."

**TheJake** · 02-03-2005, 10:55 AM

Ok like i've said before video games are like life... win some lose some the only difference is there is no restart. So play the best you can and watch out for those act's of God.. cause they'll getchya

Phinehas · 02-03-2005, 11:41 AM

Well i would tend to agree with jakethepunk War is good no it is not the major cause of killing off the unwanted but it can do a good job of it if done right. Also our cia agents and hired assassins do a good deal of that to. why it took them so long don't ask me but well it did and now we should be gone out of there i mean really if we are going to invade somewhere lets invade mexico i mean they all wanted to be american anyways for as many that cross into out borders. and next is canada i mean why not they are socialistic anyways and that is where our country is headed so why not just invite them or make them come along for the ride. Well anyways back to war which is the only way to bring about true peace hitler knew that so did napolean bonaparte. So yeah war is also the one thing the goverment can use to bring about a turn in economic stance. its been proven that if you go to war your economy will be better off and more people will have jobs. Thanks for letting me put my two cents in.

Phinehas · 02-03-2005, 11:44 AM

sorry to clarify when i said the unwanted i meant the people in power that use that power to harm innocent people and use that to gain wealth.

**TheWills** · 02-03-2005, 03:50 PM

You basterd, canada will resisit!!!!

**TheJake** · 02-03-2005, 04:02 PM

**lilwings** · 02-03-2005, 04:17 PM

You guys are awesome!

I must say that guys jw and jake are right... this may or may not be the right situation to be committed in, but we are here regardless. While my couch, my beer, and my big ol' SUV are calling me, my duties have me slightly occupied and wearing tan at the moment. I've said it before (when I was covered in the chicken pox and very angry with the world) and I can say it again... soldiers fight for each other. It's just nice to know that there are good people standing behind you, supporting you, even if the politics of the war don't garner much support. Thank you, guys.

**Sijuki** · 02-03-2005, 07:58 PM

Gee, a discussion about war. Above all situations that could cause outbreak of war, the single most greatest threat to the United States is Taiwan (Formosa).

Taiwan as seen by the U.S. is a sovereign country which we recognize, trade with, and provide their defense. We provide missles, guns, ammo, tanks, planes, etc, etc.

Taiwan to China is a renegade province that will one day be rejoined with the mainland, with force if necessary. The U.S. says that if China invades we will defend Taiwan. China says if the U.S. defends Taiwan they will declare war on the U.S. All this over a small island in the South China Sea.

Korea would rank number 2 on my list of volatile areas. Being that for over 50 years now we have stood on a line 24 hours a day, 7 days a week watching an invisible line to make sure the North Koreans don't cross it to invade South Korea. Although once again the same thing as been said, that one day Korea will be one again.

No. 3 and not as scary as it was a few years ago is Kashmir. The Indians, the Pakistanis, and the people of Kashmir have been battling this area out for a number of years, coming very close to nuclear battle. Finally they have begun slightly more serious talks toward a peaceful resolution. Hopefully peace will prevail.

While war can be seen as a way to "control" population growth, we have advanced to a stage of technology where we can cause much more damage then ever before. In those three examples all countries have access to nuclear weaponry. If there was to be a mild nuclear exchange that would eliminate a large portion of population, arable land, and economic strength for anyone. If we got involved with China and only two bombs were exchanged, one hit Beijing and the other hit New York City both would cause extensive damage to both countries. Millions of people would be killed, millions more would probably die from radiation and other effects. Billions would be lost in economic power, and two major cities in the world would be wiped off the map, and would take years and years to be able to begin to regrow. Both would cause massive political issues as both cities house huge firms and government offices that are associated with other countries.

While war can have its advantages, we have reached sort of an apex i believe of how effectively we can use war. It is no longer a style in which you overpower a country with brute force, it is now a race of technology and the effects of which can not be controlled.

While I am not particularly a peace lovin hippie, I don't see any reason to create war where it is not needed. We have spent the last 60 years creating war all over the world in the name of democracy, its time to stop. It's getting to be as ridiculous as war in the name of God.

Just some thoughts, I think.

Anyways, why invade Mexico? I don't think we need to increase our debt, lower our standard of living, or create anymore problems then this country already has. No offense to the good citizens of Mexico. I have friends there, and while they enjoy their life, its not the same as the U.S. way of life. Then I would have to listen to more people bitch about people speaking spanish and not english. Which I say this, If you don't like people not speaking English, either move to England or talk to your congressmen about creating a national language.

**TheWills** · 02-04-2005, 12:26 AM

personaly I think technology is to advanced for our feeble minds to handle, I reckon it would be rightcheous if technology in the war department went back to the WWII days, even though it was at a point where fightin a war would cost ton of lives cauase it was advnaced enough to get the job done yet not developed enough to be relativley safe, so you still had to get in there and get more dirty then they do today. However today if someone really wants to piss a person off they could blow their country tight of the face of the earth, and take all the land it was on with it, which I find is kinda scary. Personaly I think we should put all wepons aside, and focus on building big azz space ships so we can invade the martians cause you all know they are up there brooding and scheming against us I say we hit em first B)

**The Monsignor** · 02-04-2005, 07:33 AM

Many of the problems with WWII technology is that their weapons were less accurate, so not only was it not safe for the soldiers, it was not safe for anyone in the country we happened to be bombing! Instead of strategically taking out bunkers, key infrastructure and weapons systems... leaving most everything else intact, we would have to carpet bomb whole cities, in the hopes that we hit what we're aiming for.

During this war, the air force actually strapped guidance systems to 500lb practice bombs made of concrete. They dropped these bombs on Anti-aircraft positions that were set up in the middle of residential neighborhoods in the belief that they would be safe there. They were precise enough to take out those positions and leave the neighborhood untouched!

... in a way, our technology is reverting... we're back to dropping rocks on people!

"Make war, not love, it's safer!"
- Grandpa Boris

**my retro career** · 02-04-2005, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sijuki@Feb 4 2005, 03:58 AM
Gee, a discussion about war.* Above all situations that could cause outbreak of war, the single most greatest threat to the United States is Taiwan (Formosa).

Sorry Rob, but i disagree.

America's insistence to preserve Israel's right of will is the greatest threat to its own security....

**my retro career** · 02-04-2005, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sijuki@Feb 4 2005, 03:58 AM
The U.S. says that if China invades we will defend Taiwan.

While that is true 10 years, maybe even 5 years ago, I am very doubtful it will happen today.

In the worst case scenario, should China invade Taiwan, the US will never defend Taiwan via military means.

It might impose economic sanctions on China - but I even doubt this.

Instead, the more curious development will be a new strategy with the EU...should a conflict in the far east occur....

...in other words, the only way the US am willing to apply any military pressure or economic sanction against China is if the EU is willing to do the same...