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View Poll Results: Bush or Kerry
1. Bush 9 23.08%
2. Kerry 30 76.92%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-20-2004, 11:50 AM   #21
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Quote:
QUOTE (Rozza @ Oct 20 2004, 05:15 PM)
same with the whole thing about using 'liberal' as an insult in american politics*

hahaha, too true roz!!* Well, SOME people consider it an insult, anyway. I don't.
F*cking liberals. j/k. As much of a conservative as I may be, I don't dislike someone cause they have liberals views , cause I have a few "liberal" views myself. For instnace I like Jon Stewart and he is a liberal.


Quote:
True independents, without financial backing, will go nowhere
True you will need financing of some sort, but who is to say you couldn't start from the ground up and just work your ass off talking to the average people. Granted being well known or popular in some form would help.

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In my state, Bush supporters actually went out and got petions signed to try to get Nader on the ballot. That is just really, really pathetic in my estimation.
In my state Kerry supporters went around to collect signatures to prevent Nader from being able to get on the ballot. They're reasoning was because it helped Bush, I told the overobsessive tart that approached me about it that if I couldn't vote for Nader I was voting for Bush anyways, and he just looked appalled. But he still wanted my signature, which I didn't give. I see no reason why you should prevent someone from getting on the ballot cause it will make you lose. If you are such a great person it shouldn't matter how many people are in the race. To be so two faced as to compliment the man on running but keep telling him to drop out of the race and force him out is rather rude.
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Old 10-20-2004, 12:55 PM   #22
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Someone mentioned Gore and the recount.

What is interesting is that Gore was never demanding a FULL statewide recount of the votes, he only wanted the votes of 4 counties recounted (ones he thought would do the most to help him).

Now we all (should) know that when they eventually did recount all of the votes and found that by even the most liberal of standards Gore won. What is really interesting though is that if just the 4 counties Gore wanted recounted were recounted then he still would have lost.

I am by no means a fan of Bush but I don't feel as sorry as some liberals do for Gore simply beacuse he tried to weasel his way into winning saying he wanted everyones vote in Florida to count but only actually requesting recounts in the four counties he thought would do HIM the most good. Had he called for a full statewide recount I would have much more sympathy.

Again not at all a fan of Bush but thats just the way the cookie crumbled

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Old 10-20-2004, 01:02 PM   #23
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Oh and re: the whole 'Gore would have won with a full recount but still would have lost if he actually had the partial recount he wanted"

Thats a fact that isn't exactly easy to find. People and think-tanks with Democratic leanings didn't really say much about it for obvious reasons and those with Republican leanings left if more or less alone because it was in their best interest to move on and try and bring the country back together rather than rub their win in further.

I took a very interesting 4000 level class in school on NOTHING BUT THE 2000 ELECTION. It was highly interesting to say the least.

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Old 10-20-2004, 06:01 PM   #24
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i um... well i um... i dont know how to explain my desire for bush to win... mostly i am not going to vote for kerry cause i dont like bush... i think bush is the best choice to finish what he fuckin (sorry) started in Iraq and to handle the conflict in N. Korea.


However I despise his enviromental stands and his foreign politics and most everything else... but i think kerry makes way too many promises for me to believe any of it
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Old 10-22-2004, 10:03 AM   #25
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oh, bush can finish it all right........doesnt mean he'll finish it well....might ...no scratch that, WILL screw things up even more.....but sure, he'll finish it eventually.......(of course this does not mean I am for Kerry....he is just as much of a horrible candidate as Bush)
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Old 10-22-2004, 03:55 PM   #26
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My 2 cents:

This might freak out all you folks who are not in the know about California Politics but I long for a presidential candidate that is somewhat in the mold of the governator.

The general concensus in Cali is that Arnold has done a great job since becoming governor and, in my mind, there are two huge reasons for his success.
1) His #1 priority is getting Reublicans and Democrats to work together
2) He surrounds himself by smart people who know what they're doing but either don't have the balls or gusto to run for a seat themselves.
The more I follow this election process the more disgusted I am about howdeeply divided people are based solely on their partisanship. Did anyone read quotes in the newspapers following the debates about who people in government thought won the debates? It was Republicans for Bush and Democrats for Kerry across the board that I saw.
In election years a lot of people seem to put their common sense blinders on and declare all in their party righteous and all in the other party losers. I think it shows a serious lack of balls and a symptom of a larger problem that people in the government can't just come out and say that they think their party's guy is a dipshit cuz they might get blacklisted from their party.
That's one of the things that I like about Ahnold, he's smart enough to realize that this isn't an all or nothing country. It really is okay to come out and say that you don't completely agree with your party's philopsphies from time to time. And no one in their right mind would ever consider him a deserter from the party, he's one of the most obvious Republicans you'll ever find

Presidents always hope that during their reign, the congress and senate seats will change enough that their party will be in power. While this is quite effective at helping them push through their agendas, it screws up the way our government was founded. Congress and the senate are there as a measure of checks and balances to the power of the presidency, not its right hand man. I don't think any one person should hold that much power and that brings me to the second thing I like about Schwarzeneggar, he surrounds himself by smart people who know what they're doing and then steps back and doesn't fuck things up. 8 or 10 heads are always better than 1, especially if they all hold equal amounts of influence so no one or two people can screw things up.

I dunno, just my opinion. Am I totally off base here?

Jason
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Old 10-22-2004, 08:51 PM   #27
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/\
Some people would argue that Bush did the same thing, just that the people he surrounded himself with were the ones who did the fucking up. But I think McCain is along the same lines as Arnold, not beholden to the party elite and goes with what he personally thinks is correct. Thats also why he didnt win the primary in 2000, but I think he will be the number one contender in 2008 for the Republicans.
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Old 10-24-2004, 02:34 PM   #28
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Well I officially cast my Vote for Kerry today so there is now no turning back. Whatever could be worse (could be better too though....)

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Old 10-24-2004, 04:17 PM   #29
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When will the madness end?!?!?! WHEN?!?! MAKE IT STOP!!! NOV 2ND Can not get here fast enough!
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Old 10-25-2004, 07:26 AM   #30
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Angry

seriously
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Old 10-25-2004, 10:59 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by space virgin@Oct 18 2004, 06:46 PM
Lick Bush & Beat Dick '04!!!* hahaha
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Old 10-25-2004, 10:40 PM   #32
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Who's seen Farenheit 9/11? I think that everyone should watch this doc before they vote. Michael tells it how it is and doesn't skate around the truth (not just my personal opinion.) My major issue with this election, like most, is the constent he did this and didnt do that. I hate the commericals, why doesn't either canidate focus on what he is/would/not do instead of what his opponent is/would/not do?
It really has come down to which one is the lesser of the evils, how sad is that?
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Old 10-26-2004, 06:27 AM   #33
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And for those who still can't decide if Chimp is worth another four years, check this PowerPoint presentation out:

http://www.freepgs.com/shytot/FourParachutes.pps

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Old 10-26-2004, 04:07 PM   #34
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Even Moore admits the movie portrays his own personal opinion on the issues. I have an extreme disslike for Bush myself but Farenheit 9/11 is by no means an unbiased piece of work.
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Old 10-26-2004, 09:58 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Carter@Oct 26 2004, 07:07 PM
Even Moore* admits the movie portrays his own personal opinion on the issues.* I have an extreme disslike for Bush myself but Farenheit 9/11 is by no means an unbiased piece of work.
Im not saying it's not an unbiased piece but the movie is truth and thats the reality, the unbiased/Michaels opinion part is just that he brings to light the things he dislikes more than the things he likes!
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Old 10-27-2004, 10:14 AM   #36
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Actually, not everything is the truth in that movie. For example, Moore's assertion that members of the Saudi royal family were allowed to leave the U.S. the day (or two days...I forget the exact assertion) after 9/11 without being interviewed by the FBI is false. All members of the Saudi royal family were fully interviewed and actually didn't leave the u.S. for nearly a week. (Remember, all flights in and around the u.s. were grounded for 4 days I think it was, following that event). So, be careful what you accept at face value, AND btw....I am NOT a Bush supporter. I just like people to have their facts straight. The problem is when someone allows their very passionate personal opinions to cloud a documentary style project....it has a tendency to allow for the stretching of facts to tell a more "compelling" story. In spite of that, feel free to help vote Bush out of office anyway!!
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Old 10-27-2004, 12:21 PM   #37
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yeah, everyone is of course welcome to their own opinions on these matters but even if the facts Moore presented are true he still didn't tell the WHOLE truth, he leaves a lot unexamined and unquestioned. Its all about the spin he puts on his facts through the way he edits the movie, I think Moore reports the facts with around the same level of truth and accuracy as Bill O'reilly does in his "no spin zone". Moore hinself tells us that the movie isn't an unbiased examination of the movie, it is supposed to respresent his feeling on the issues and draw an emotional response as a result. When the author of such a work tells us we shouldn't take it as the gospel then I personally think we would be much better off following their advice.

Now I personally have liked all of Moore's "documentaries" to date but I think he really stretched things to thin in 9/11 and as a result its my least favorite to date. Moore heavily leads the people he interviews, you might say he puts words in their mouths at times, he definitly cuts their answers short at oportune times. One minute Bush is a bluberring idiot in Moores eyes and yet the next he is an evil mastermind, I mean I don't like Bush either but lets pick some characteristics of the guy and stick with them. Oh and so the Saudi's own 7% of America? What Moore means is they own 7% of the publicly traded stocks in America (a great deal MORE than 7% of them are also owned in the UK and Japan). Sorry but I don't fully undersatnd all the emphasis Moore places on trying to convince us that the Saudi's and the Bush's are up each others butts, I mean I know why he brought it up and its something important to consider but I don't know why he ran with it for so long. FACT: Saudi Arabia did not join our 'coalition of the willing'. FACT: Saudi Arabia also forced us to move our regional military headquarters from Saudi to Qatar.

Sorry but while I think Farenheit 9/11 was entertaining and draws a powerful emotional response (from myself as well), I am still taking the advice of its creator and viewing it as an op-ed piece (one which I actually agree with a great deal) rather than cold-hard fact. Just because facts were used to create it does not mean that its the cold-hard truth. Others are of course welcome to hold other opinions on this matter.

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Old 10-27-2004, 08:54 PM   #38
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I think we need a Neither choice on that poll... man am I ever proud and glad to be Canadian. I'd hate to have to choose between the lesser of two evils who will surely just keep making decisions that the people don't agree with, giving the whole country a bad name and rep around the world.
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Old 10-27-2004, 10:51 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by LiveFreeorDie@Oct 27 2004, 01:14 PM
Actually, not everything is the truth in that movie.* For example, Moore's assertion that members of the Saudi royal family were allowed to leave the U.S. the day (or two days...I forget the exact assertion) after 9/11 without being interviewed by the FBI is false.* All members of the Saudi royal family were fully interviewed and actually didn't leave the u.S. for nearly a week.* (Remember, all flights in and around the u.s. were grounded for 4 days I think it was, following that event).
That is exactly what happend. Not all flights were grounded, Ive seen the documentation on this. Within hours of the World Trade center, Senior Bush had planes in the air.
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Old 10-28-2004, 08:34 AM   #40
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She's actually right acording to information that can be optained through foia it looks like one flight left the country on the 13th (the day before the general ban on air travel was lifted).

My Webpagehttp://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2004/homelandsecurity.pdf

(that one guy listed as traveling on 9/11 had left that morning before the attacks)

Before this they also had several flights going to assemble the Saudis at various places so they could depart imediatly when general air traffic resumed. Flights for things like organ transplants and the moving of empty aircraft were also going on at this time.
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