The politics of guidebooks - TravelPUNK Backpacker College Student Budget Travel Message Boards!

**freakypete** · 09-22-2007, 02:55 PM

Just found this aritcle that I found interesting: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7006266.stm

I feel that a bit of background information is useful and interesting when you visit a country, and it helps you to get to know the place better. While things like the Tiananmen Square massacre are touchy subjects in that country i dont think that should mean people who go there shouldnt know about it.

I think the bit about Burma is interesting. Rough Guide dont do a guide for that country because the democratically elected president who is under house arrest has asked for a tourism boycott, yet Lonely Planet do. I personally wouldnt go to Burma knowing that, and i wonder if the lonely planet guide actually mentions the boycott??

what does everyone think?

**expatben** · 09-22-2007, 03:14 PM

There are some places I wouldn't go to for safety reasons and I certainly am not planing a trip back to some countries soon. On the other hand I think just because you disagree with a government is not neccessarly a reason not to visit the country and its people. If I refused to go to a country because I disliked the government there, I think I would move back to Glargon 6 because there is no where on Earth I would visit!
As for Rough Guide NOT doing a book but Lonely Planet doing one well I guess its up to them. You could argue morally for RG but then again LP could argue that people will visit anyways, at least they will be informed.
But yeah mention Tienanmen.

**TheJake** · 09-22-2007, 10:45 PM

man i totally wish inter-stellar hitchhiking was a reality...

**expatben** · 09-23-2007, 05:51 AM

yeah that would be sweet

**joe7f** · 09-23-2007, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJake

man i totally wish inter-stellar hitchhiking was a reality...

Haha, I am relying on that for the future because I plan to get bored with earth by the time I am 30 :D

I think you can make a moral argument that increased tourism pumps money into the pockets of locals which can assist in liberalizing the society. Another reason to lift the embargo on Cuba.

--Joey

wong name · 09-23-2007, 07:43 PM

i agree, what a concept

**simply_angelic** · 09-24-2007, 05:45 AM

I would hate to think that they were censoring guidebooks....

I think knowledge about an area is one of the most important tools a traveler can be given. This way you can make informed decisions as to what you choose to do & if you somehow happened into that area by accident or something, you wouldnt be caught off guard!

**joe7f** · 09-24-2007, 05:57 AM

I agree with you 110% in principal Laura.

Government censorship is something I never condone, but if you import material critical of a government (let's take China for example) you can get your guidebook confiscated or worse. I can understand Lonely Planet not explaining the scope of the Tienanmen Massacre for the guide book on China, but if they simply referred to Nanking as an incident (like some Japanese do) in order to sell the Chinese guide in Japan, I would be very disappointed.

--Joey

**mbo108** · 09-24-2007, 07:31 AM

As far as Lonely Planet goes, Tony Wheeler came out with "Bad Lands" a few months ago about his trips to places such as Myanmar (Burma). I don't know about the guidebooks, but his account doesn't seem censored at all. He really lets you know whats going on there. And i tihnk thats his point, showing that all these countries have good (or good people) in them, even if their leaders or governments are corrupt/horrific/repressive/whatever.

**worldwidemike** · 09-24-2007, 08:53 AM

Having been to Myanmar/Burma, I have read the pro and con arguments about visiting there. Although I respect Aung San Suu Kyi's call for a tourism boycott, I disagree with it. It is my opinion that all contact with outsiders helps pry open the iron fist of totalitarian rule, even if a little bit. If the Myanmar's people interact with foreign visitors, hear about how they live their lives in the outside world, then they will be more likely to resist governmental control. On the other hand, if the only story they hear is the government's propoganda, then they will be more likely to go along with "Big Brother's" control.

So, as you travel abroad to those countries with repressive regimes, you are actually helping the cause of freedom. The more these people who are repressed hear about our freedoms, the more they will want them. And the more people that want them, the harder it will be for the government to maintain control.

At least that's my opinion...

worldwidemike

**Canadian Bacon** · 09-24-2007, 09:31 AM

That is TOTAL BULLSHIT... They are just bowing down to the Chinese government to make more money. It's a wise business decision, but what!

Can you really visit a site without knowing its contemporary significance?

Many battles were fought and plenty of people were massacred in Tienamen Square in the past thousand years, but in our time there is only one we witnessed - the pro-democracy rally massacre... how can the guidebook exclude that?

that's total bullshit... its not local sensitivies, its the bullshit of the Communists... and another example of companies bowing down to Chinese money.

Backpacking is about learning the truth of things - of which the guidebook is an essential part...

**joe7f** · 09-24-2007, 01:49 PM

Wow Mike excellently stated

Jason I hate communism as much as anyone but if you can't bring Lonely Planet into China, what good is the guidebook? I don't believe it was an outright mercenary position (like the ones Yahoo and Google have taken) it is merely a pragmatic one.

--Joey

**simply_angelic** · 09-25-2007, 07:03 AM

Mike, you're totally right. Why else would North Korea be so shut away from the rest of the world?

**Maineartist** · 09-26-2007, 11:33 AM

The lonely planet guidebook on Burma/Myanmar does a nice job of explaining the situation.

**Canadian Bacon** · 09-26-2007, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe7f

Jason I hate communism as much as anyone but if you can't bring Lonely Planet into China, what good is the guidebook? I don't believe it was an outright mercenary position (like the ones Yahoo and Google have taken) it is merely a pragmatic one.

--Joey

I agree it IS pragmatic. I also think the Chiense government's attempt to ERASE the memory of the democracy movement is also pragmatic.

It's not the point - pragmatism or not, its wrong. What us as backpackers need to do is to let the Lonely Planet people know that if they want to sell out like that... then I'll just buy a Frommers, or even a... ughh... Lets Go.

Or maybe us Tpunks can start out own guide book... Hell we have enough knowledge on these boards alone!

**Canadian Bacon** · 09-26-2007, 12:32 PM

And ANOTHER thing... (sorry to rant like this) the Chinese government is alwas up in arms about the Japanese textbook issue (how some Japanese textbooks don't refer to Nanjing as a 'massacre' but a 'incident'...etc)... and they are guilty of doing the same thing!

**zmsmith5** · 09-26-2007, 12:52 PM

i think it makes perfect sense that guidebooks should include something like tianamen, as it informs the traveler. i do think that they should include a caveat against speaking about it, along with open proselyting(sp?) of religion, in an environment where free speech is so limited. I mean, the Chinese government blocks acces to Wikipedia (i know this from experience) and ahve restrictions on personal blogs and open forums like this one. People should know about a thing, but be socially aware enough to just not bring it up while they are there. If you want to do that, why not go to Germany and ask everybody there why they killed the Jews? Its just not polite behavior. It wont help anybody's situation if you get thrown in jail or deported for speaking out.

**omisan** · 09-26-2007, 02:00 PM

Solution for the China guidebook: Lonely Planet should print the full story on Tiannemen, etc. But on perforated pages and instruct the reader to remove those pages before entering China.

Easy peasy.

**simply_angelic** · 09-27-2007, 07:22 AM

That's a good idea omi....I was thinking of just cutting the pages out but I guess you're idea's a little easier

**mbo108** · 09-27-2007, 07:32 AM

Omi, i think thats a great idea. The US offices are in Oakland, you should ride your bike over there and let 'em know. Maybe they'll hook you up with a free guide...