Protests today by immigrants - TravelPUNK Backpacker College Student Budget Travel Message Boards!

**Tadpole** · 05-01-2006, 05:28 AM

New bills have been recently proposed to crack down on immigration. Making it harder to get in, stay in, and making it alot easier to kick them out. Assuming they are illegal (one bill was proposed to make it a felony to be in the United Stated Illegally).

Protests today are expected to be the biggest since the Vietnam protests. Today is May 1, 2006. The point is to show the economic power of immigrants.
Add more if you know more about it

My opinion:
The protests of legal immigrants should be listened too attentively. We all came from immigrants.

The protests of ILLegal immigrants should be kicked out immidetialty. They arent citizens, which means they dont have a say how we run our government anymore than they citizens of other nations do. Just becuase they are protesting in our streets doesnt mean they have a say. They came across illegally.

I have nothing against illegal immagrants. I think the ones that are here should have a chance to become citizens. And by no means should we ever ever close our borders. But we should protect them. If anyone wants to become an american citizen and protest. THen thats the what makes america great. However, jumping the border and protesting our governemtn is a slap in the face, if you ask me. Dont protest the laws if your not willing to follow them.

It isnt impossible to become a citizen. It is extremely hard to become one, but if everyone was let in to the one boat that everyone wants....then it sinks.

I dont think the idea of ten of thousands of people running across the border makes any feel safe. Regardless of citizenship. That alone should warrent strict border controls.

Control the borders, make everyone who wants in; go through the same screening process, never close them down but make it a funnel like the rest of the 250,000,000 citizens of the USA have to go through in order to cross.

Immigrants who are new citizens of the USA have as much to say about our government as you and I do. There is a big difference between an immgrant who is a US citizan, and an illegal immigrant.

Mexican citizens (the majority of illegal immgrants) do not have a say in our government any more than French or Russian Citizens do. No matter what street they protest on.

**expatben** · 05-01-2006, 06:39 AM

I don't want to offend anyone here but here it goes:
I am all for legal immigration but I am sorry, I think illegals should be deported. When you come over to any country illegally you jump the line and thats not fair. My Father went almost 3 months without seeing his wife and kids because we were in England and he had to stay in Canada to immigrate-which he did-LEGALY.
If you want to come to a country you fill out the forms and wait your turn unless you are an asylum seeker.

JeanB · 05-01-2006, 07:05 AM

The hypocrisy of middle america has been revealed in these immigration protests. On the one hand everyone wants stricter border controls and yet on the other hand everyone wants cheap labour and the nanny from pueto rico. Like all succesful economies, the american economy is kept buoyant through the illegal labor market, without which it would surely sink. The realists in power have to weigh up the disadvantages of tax losses and crime rates against the economic advantages. This has always been the case, and in fact most the so-called pioneers were in fact illegally squatting on public land that was to be auctioned by the government. USA is the nation of immigrants par excellance, and it is no coincidence that today it stands as the most powerful. On the whole immigrants are people willing to set-up home in a new country and start a new life. It logically follows that the vast majority are not thieves but are in fact very hard workers, since they accept life's burdens more readilly than those of us who have led a more pampered existence. Lets hear it for immigrants, and accept that issues of legality resolve around economics and not fair-play.

**Joker** · 05-01-2006, 08:17 AM

1. This is a country of immigrants. the whole melting pot notwithstanding, the overwhelming majority of citizens of this country's ancestors were immigrants. Mine came through Ellis Island, legally.

2. Mexican (specifically here) illegals are encouraged by a duplicitous government that is financially propped up by the flow of money headed south. Citizens of that country have been actually encouraged by the leadership of their country to come here.

3. Immediate deportation of the illegals already here would drive prices of common goods up immediately since the labor force that deals with it already would be gone. The sad reality is that most white or black Americans won't do the job for the price paid. I seriously have a hard time hiring a 15 year old white kid to wash dishes and rely upon him to show up on time every day. But give me a team of Salvadorans, and I know the job will get done.

4. Granting amnesty is also not the answer- it legitimizes the illegal action that has taken place and once more gives precedent for more to cross over. This becomes a vicious cycle.

The only way to really stem the tide of illegals is to physically put a wall up that prevents illegal crossings. But that isn't going to happen. This is a Pandora's Box and we are hard pressed to find a legit way to fix it. WE are still left with the 10 million or so still in this country. The next question is exactly what do we do about them??

PS: Keep this clean. If I see anything heading south, I'm pulling the plug.

**Tadpole** · 05-01-2006, 08:20 AM

whats wrong with the south....

(im glad we have more mods now to watch touchy subjects)

**Joker** · 05-01-2006, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tadpole@May 1 2006, 08:20 AM
whats wrong with the south....

(im glad we have more mods now to watch touchy subjects)

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Full of mouth breathers like you... :D (technically I'm in the South, too. )

**juliagulia** · 05-01-2006, 09:01 AM

maryland is not south!!

well, you're assuming all illegal immigrants CAME over illegally. my sister was illegal for a majority of her life (but came here legally). she applied for her residence when she was 5, and got it ten years later (in those ten years she was illegal, even though her residency was pending).

im really biased on this (obviously) but my point is that a majority of illegal immigrants i know came here 100% legal. the only person who i know "hopped the border" already left (willingly... and by plane).

AKA: Not ALL illegal immigrants came over here maliciously hopping the border, and most came here completely legally..

**Joker** · 05-01-2006, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by juliagulia@May 1 2006, 09:01 AM
maryland is not south!!

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Now, now, little Tpunk Sister, let me remind you that we reside SOUTH of the Mason-Dixon line. And we all know the only reason for that line is to keep "all ya'll" from "yous guys." :D

As for your sis, if she had residence pending, then she was in the clear, non? I thought once you were in the system you were in the system? There was/is a paper trail for her. The folks that are in question here are coming over and making no overtures to become resident aliens or citizens of the US. That is where I think the major problem lies.

JeanB · 05-01-2006, 09:31 AM

I still think it is a terrible thing to criminalise a large part of the working adult population, the poorest sector at that. But i guess thats what laws have always been about.....

**Joker** · 05-01-2006, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JeanB@May 1 2006, 09:31 AM
I still think it is a terrible thing to criminalise a large part of the working adult population, the poorest sector at that. But i guess thats what laws have always been about.....

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Nobody is saying that we are making it a crime- it already IS a crime. I cannot legally enter any country I want to without appropriate documentation and stay for any length of time I like. I can't fly to Oz and stay for several years without appropriate visas.

As a traveler who does obtain the appropriate paperwork, I don't have issue with it. If I had taken the job in CR in January, I'd have obtained appropriate work visas. I wouldn't have tried to sneak in and stay under the radar.

**bluepea** · 05-01-2006, 09:33 AM

But would it really still be fun if they weren't illegal?

Anyways, just want to ask a serious question and this is one I've been thinking about and since the topic has already been broached...

Politics and economics aside, how do you personally feel as a traveler about this? For all of the Americans that long to be able to legally move to a European country full well knowing the red tape that'll be faced and the ones who have already expat'ed legally and illegally... just kind of curious as to your feelings (again, politics and economics not withstanding).

And again, lets make sure this whole topic stays civil.

**expatben** · 05-01-2006, 09:52 AM

Indeed, most North Americans are imigrants. My father's family first immigrated to Pensylvania from Germany and then immigrated again to Ontario with the other Mennonites. My Mothers family came to America from Britain in the 1960s and to Canada in the 1970s. Immigration is a great thing and immigrants should be welcomed. However as I said before lets keep it legal. I have had an Uncle living in a country under "less than legal" conditions but he is now legal and because of that has become entitled to more things from the state.

**voyd** · 05-01-2006, 09:57 AM

I think the flood of illegal aliens is just a symptom of a far bigger problem - and they are only pawns in this chess match.

When you have tens of millions of citizens fleeing their own country - that is not even at war - that country obviously has some severe problems sustaining a workable economy and manageable birthrate.

Focusing on the outflow of immigrants from there is thus only first aid - but the bigger question is what is being done to fix the political and cultural norms in that country that are causing such a mass exodus. And I don't think simply exporting the victims of all those problems is the answer. In fact, it will only enable the problems and not force any change...

**Joker** · 05-01-2006, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by voyd@May 1 2006, 09:57 AM
I think the flood of illegal aliens is just a symptom of a far bigger problem - and they are only pawns in this chess match.

When you have tens of millions of citizens fleeing their own country - that is not even at war - that country obviously has some severe problems sustaining a workable economy and manageable birthrate.

Focusing on the outflow of immigrants from there is thus only first aid - but the bigger question is what is being to fix the political and cultural norms in that country that are causing such a mass exodus.* And I don't think simply exporting the victims of all those problems is the answer.

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Amazingly you and I are on the same page here. The mass exodus from Mexico alone is endemic of a much larger problem. And as I stated before, their government has encouraged immigration because the funds they send back props them up.

So, then, what exactly do we do? Free-trade agreements have attempted to put a bandaid on the issue, but overall have done little to stem the tide.

**voyd** · 05-01-2006, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joker@May 1 2006, 10:59 AM
So, then, what exactly do we do? Free-trade agreements have attempted to put a bandaid on the issue, but overall have done little to stem the tide.
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I think the answer is obvious - send in military troops to liberate the people of Mexico!

We must not give up our search for oil..I mean, WMDs! If they can't be found in Iraq - then we must search Mexico too! No stone shall go unturned!

xanthuos · 05-01-2006, 10:12 AM

Elsewhere in the world, people just as poor as Mexican peasants continue to toil away at their miserable lives...and they apply for the right to enter this country legally. Should Mexican citizens and other Central and South Americans get a "free pass" just because they can travel up and over an adjacent border? I don't think so.

As for my PERSONAL opinion on the matter, I believe in free borders - however, that should only happen when a bunch of my other personal opinions come to fruition like no more income tax and no social services. Then it doesn't matter when a person is "legal" or "illegal" because either way they aren't a "drain" on the system if there is nothing for them to take advantage of.

As for my realistic opinion on what's happening - I believe in a guest worker program. Illegal aliens should get documented, and pay income taxes. At the same time, the border should be more heavily guarded. Illegal aliens who commit felonies, however, should be immediately deported...along with those (illegal aliens) who are currently serving time.

I agree with Tadpole though that it is a slap in the face for the people who violated our laws and came here illegally to have any input on any new laws, even if it directly affects them.

**Somnambulation** · 05-01-2006, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xanthuos@May 1 2006, 09:12 AM
I believe in free borders - however, that should only happen when a bunch of my other personal opinions come to fruition like no more income tax and no social services.* Then it doesn't matter when a person is "legal" or "illegal" because either way they aren't a "drain" on the system if there is nothing for them to take advantage of.

Exactly. There would really be no downside to open borders if there were no social programs to exploit. As it is now, it is not good policy to allow masses of poor to flood into the country. I dont necessarily blame the illigals themselves, they are just trying to better thier lives, but that doesnt mean we need to accept them. Since I dont see massive reform of our system of social programs, the only option is to build and a wall and crack down on employers of illegal workers. As for what to do about the Mexican govornemnt encouraging illegal immigration, Im not sure. We need to make them understand that we wont tolerate that type of thing.

**juliagulia** · 05-01-2006, 11:52 AM

Joker: No, she was still illegal. She had a SSN from when she was still protected by her visa, and there was a period when she was protected, but she was illegal because her sponsor was a (insert bad word here) and not exactly the best sponsor.

I dunno... I really think of myself as a Mid-Atlantic-er. Everyone in the SC and Georgia asked if my friends and I were from "up-north" when we went down there...

**simply_angelic** · 05-01-2006, 12:17 PM

I'm kind of back and forth on the issue of illegal immigration. I mean, on the one hand they came over illegally and that is wrong, but at the same time what a lot of people have to understand is that immigrating into your country is not always the easiest thing to do legally (perhaps they are not allowed to leave by their country, etc). Many of these people come from homes which are not safe: perhaps they are in a war zone or simply live in a harsh environment (be it due to the government or socially by the public) where they may not be able to survive the months, or even years that they have to wait in order to be granted acceptance into your country. That is IF they are EVER granted this acceptance.

I think that if they came over illegally chances are they were forced to. And while you don't want to be sending the message that it's okay to do so, I say once they're here, let them stay (Unless they really are a threat to your society). It just takes too much time, and money away from the government to be ridding your country of these people and in the end is it really worth it? I don't believe so.

xanthuos · 05-01-2006, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by simply_angelic@May 1 2006, 03:17 PM
I'm kind of back and forth on the issue of illegal immigration. I mean, on the one hand they came over illegally and that is wrong, but at the same time what a lot of people have to understand is that immigrating into your country is not always the easiest thing to do legally (perhaps they are not allowed to leave by their country, etc). Many of these people come from homes which are not safe: perhaps they are in a war zone or simply live in a harsh environment (be it due to the government or socially by the public) where they may not be able to survive the months, or even years that they have to wait in order to be granted acceptance into your country. That is IF they are EVER granted this acceptance.

I think that if they came over illegally chances are they were forced to. And while you don't want to be sending the message that it's okay to do so, I say once they're here, let them stay (Unless they really are a threat to your society). It just takes too much time, and money away from the government to be ridding your country of these people and in the end is it really worth it? I don't believe so.

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I can agree with a lot of what you said...for those that are already here (some 12 million or so), it's too difficult and far too expensive to try to deport them. However, I think the United States government DOES need to do a LOT more to ensure that our borders are not a free-for-all. The government needs to STOP the tide of illegals streaming across the border.

From much of what I've read (since I have never been to Mexico)...it's just simply economics. Many of the illegal immigrants here weren't starving at home, they just knew they could make a lot more money in the US than they could in Mexico. That's all well and good, but they should have to come here LEGALLY to do that.

As others have said...every western nation is difficult to emigrate to legally. Why should the US be the country that makes an exception and just allows anyone to come in illegally and stay? Arguing that their life is difficult in their country so they should be allowed free reign across the border is somewhat of a red herring - there are so many third world countries in the world and so many people living in poverty...it's like what kids who want special treatment are told... "If I do this for you, I have to do this for everyone. It's not fair if I don't."