Protests today by immigrants - Page 2 - TravelPUNK Backpacker College Student Budget Travel Message Boards!

**beergal** · 05-01-2006, 01:08 PM

Liverpool has seen a new community evolve over the last 18 months a substantial part of the increase here is from the Polish community. There are a lot of polish workers working on building sites hotels etc.
Although i cant answer for your county for someone living in the European Union i believe migration is essential to the economy our population is getting smaller as we struggle for material possesions and our health is improving and we are living longer because of our social healthcare system. I believe that the SEA (single European Act) has benefited the country immensly but we do however suffer from huge amounts of illegal immigrants from Africa and Asia, just recently there was a case that went to court for the death of 20 Chinese illegal immigrants who were catching cockles at Morecombe Bay.
I believe that we should however have a points system for those what want to immigrate to the UK, something similar to that of Australia.
Illegal migration from Eastern Europe and trafficking of children and women is a great concern when they are pushed into the sex trade. But how can we combat issues like these. It costs huge amounts of resources, time and money but maybe we should be helping the countries where these people are "escaping" from. Sometimes i think we are the purpotraters of why these migrants come to our countries because we have forced the effects of globalisation on to them.

**TheJake** · 05-01-2006, 01:11 PM

it's like alice cooper said on his radio show the other day.

"what's so bad about mexico? I go there to get away from here!"

**bluepea** · 05-01-2006, 01:19 PM

^^That's what I'm thinking. Maybe in a couple years, I'll call up someone from Mexico/South America to see if they'd like to switch residences.

foofiter · 05-01-2006, 02:12 PM

I live in Atlanta and we have a HUGE Mexican population here. Some legal, most not. I know plenty of people who profit from the illegal crossings and will fight to keep it.

IMHO, I believe that if you want to work here you should go thru the hoops just like everyone else. I am personally doing everything in my power to get OUT of here but will do it legally. I am considering the possibility of not coming back as well.

I agree that the problem should be treated at the source. If its an economical or social problem sending the waves over then yes we need to help somehow. If its simply because they can cross a river and make 20x as much then we have a problem on our side. Mexico specifically, we need to tighten the border AND help out with the poverty down south. Peace Corps should be in full force down there...

Foo

**expatben** · 05-01-2006, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by foofiter@May 1 2006, 01:12 PM

IMHO, I believe that if you want to work here you should go thru the hoops just like everyone else. I am personally doing everything in my power to get OUT of here but will do it legally.

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Thats exactly how I feel man

SleepIsTheCousinOfDeath · 05-01-2006, 02:27 PM

Open the fucking borders...

**Tadpole** · 05-01-2006, 02:29 PM

Politicians are too concerned about getting the hispanic vote for their next election than increasing the safety of he US and doing what everyone knows is the right thing to do. If it is illegal, then somethign has to be done. If all the politicians were so concerned about making the left or right side look bad and looked at the interest of the US then I dont think this would even be an issue.

Last year 130,000 people were caught trying to sneak across the border. Guys thats 10,000 people a month that we are catching. Can you even imagine how many are coming across that arent getting caught. Not only that but of those 130,000 only 30,000 were sent back immediatly. The rest were taking in and taxes were used to contain them and eventualy fly some more back. Thats alot of people just walking across the border. I dont know abotu you, but im more worried about some nut case walkign a cross the border than I wam about port deals and crap.

60% of illegal immegrants jumped the border. The rest have problems like visas and such. Like Julia' sis. Unfortuantly the majority have come across illegal.

But it really ticks me off to see illegal immigrants protest our government on our streets. Dont tell us how to make our laws if you arent willing to follow them. Give me a break.

**bluepea** · 05-01-2006, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tadpole@May 1 2006, 01:29 PM
But it really ticks me off to see illegal immigrants protest our government on our streets. Dont tell us how to make our laws if you arent willing to follow them. Give me a break.

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You know, I haven't made my mind up about how I seriously feel, but I do agree 100% with that.

**juliagulia** · 05-01-2006, 03:29 PM

There is not a SINGLE illegal immigrant who I know who is doing anything illegal but be within the country. Yeah I know it's illegal and quite a few have come over illegally, but the image I'm getting from (some) of these posts are that illegal immigrants are crazy criminals who disregard all laws. Yeah they do disregard the law that says they can't be here, but they're not running into the streets robbing and looting. I know that that probably wasn't the intention, but that's just the image I keep seeing people have...

Maybe it's just that I know a lot of these people personally, and they're human beings. I'm not saying naturalize them all, but don't categorize them as malicious/crazy criminals either.

And please please please don't think I'm trying to be rude towards any specific person or group of people... It's just something that I feel strongly about, and believe me when I say that I'm trying to put this as nicely and un-angry as possible...

Should this be in the politic's thread?

**bluepea** · 05-01-2006, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by juliagulia@May 1 2006, 02:29 PM
There is not a SINGLE illegal immigrant who I know who is doing anything illegal but be within the country. Yeah I know it's illegal and quite a few have come over illegally, but the image I'm getting from (some) of these posts are that illegal immigrants are crazy criminals who disregard all laws. Yeah they do disregard the law that says they can't be here, but they're not running into the streets robbing and looting. I know that that probably wasn't the intention, but that's just the image I keep seeing people have...

Maybe it's just that I know a lot of these people personally, and they're human beings. I'm not saying naturalize them all, but don't categorize them as malicious/crazy criminals either.

And please please please don't think I'm trying to be rude towards any specific person or group of people... It's just something that I feel strongly about, and believe me when I say that I'm trying to put this as nicely and un-angry as possible...

Should this be in the politic's thread?*

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I wouldn't say that anyones categorizing them as psycho criminals per se. But, by being here they are immediately breaking a law and whether or not it's one you or anyone else agrees with, there is a law therefore making them criminals.

I've known many immigrants as well (I came from a small town in Wisconsin where we had a huge population of Mexican immigrants working in a meat packing plant), and I definitely wouldn't categorize them as "criminals." For the most part they were just working families earning money, but I definitely wouldn't glorify the situation and say that none of them were criminals. There were plenty of cases of statutory rape, sexual assault, harassment (I had to deal with this personally and the police were involved

) drug violations, domestic violence, a few homicides etc. Again, not trying to say "they're all crazed!" but let's be realistic. Just cuz none of the ones you know... well you know the saying.

Oh and the politics thread is a ruse.

We're watching this thread closely though and it will be closed if any of this :greenguy: or this

or

ensues. Hehe.

**simply_angelic** · 05-01-2006, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tadpole@May 1 2006, 05:29 PM
I dont know abotu you, but im more worried about some nut case walkign a cross the border than I wam about port deals and crap.

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I think America has home grown enough "nut cases" all on it's own...it's not like America is perfect. Like Julia said, most illegal immigrants are not crazed nut jobs trying to do America/Americans in, most are just trying to make a better living for themselves.

xanthuos · 05-01-2006, 03:58 PM

They committed a criminal act to come here.

A crack addict steals to support his habit. Addiction is a disease and to some people, it's not his fault that he is addicted. Does that make the theft not a crime?

I, too, know illegal immigrants. I would even count a few amongst my "friends." That doesn't excuse what they did to come here - illegally cross a border in violation of international law.

As for the criminal aspect? I will let others answer that for me:

"The U.S. Justice Department estimated that 270,000 illegal immigrants served jail time nationally in 2003. Of those, 108,000 were in California. Some estimates show illegals now make up half of California's prison population, creating a massive criminal subculture that strains state budgets and creates a nightmare for local police forces." - Investors Business Daily, March 2005

"In March 2000, Congress made public Department of Justice statistics showing that, over the previous five years, the INS had released over 35,000 criminal aliens instead of deporting them. Over 11,000 of those released went on to commit serious crimes, over 1,800 of which were violent ones [including 98 homicides, 142 sexual assaults, and 44 kidnappings]. In 2001...the INS was forced to release into our society over 3,000 criminal aliens [who collectively had been convicted of 125 homicides, 387 sex offenses, and 772 assault charges]." - Federation for American Immigration Reform

"Roughly 17 percent of the prison population at the federal level are illegal aliens. That's a huge number since illegal aliens only account for about 3 percent of the total population." - Center for Immigration Studies

**Tadpole** · 05-01-2006, 04:47 PM

Quote:

I dont know abotu you, but im more worried about some nut case walkign a cross the border than I wam about port deals and crap.

To clarify my statement: I didnt mean the common guy trying to jump the border was a nut case, i meant if someone wanted to get into the country to harm US interests it doesnt sound like our borders are that well protected. Therefor a nut case could jump the border, not neccesarily a mexican citizen.

I dont think the illgeal immigration issue would be such a problem if they didnt start protesting. Its kind of like, who do they think they are? Not American citizens.

Plus the media has labeled it as "A day without immigrates." When there hasnt been an issue with stoping imigrates, just illegal ones.

**Joker** · 05-01-2006, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by simply_angelic@May 1 2006, 03:57 PM
I think America has home grown enough "nut cases" all on it's own...it's not like America is perfect. Like Julia said, most illegal immigrants are not crazed nut jobs trying to do America/Americans in, most are just trying to make a better living for themselves.

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This is not the case with the Mariel Boat Lift. FYI, Castro opened up his jails and mental hospitals in 1980 and sent his worst offenders to the US via boats to get them out of Cuba and into Florida. If you've seen Scarface, you have a glimpse of it. Castro swamped the Coast Guard with boats and sent several thousand over.

Rather, the majority of these folks coming across are just looking for work. There has to be something done to prevent the influx of immigrants from turning to violence, however, and thats where we are now.

There are criminals out there, and we are foolish to deny that. In Suburban Maryland we're seeing a HUGE surge in Hispanic gang activity, so much so that all the local PD's are going nuts to create or strengthen gang task forces. Specifically, there are turf wars at play now with various gangs, many Salvadoran in origin.

Anyway, once more, I will say that in order to help to remedy this we need to do several things:

1. DO not grant amnesty to the illegals here already. Allow them to apply for citizenship or work visas.

2. Immediately deport the criminals we have in jail already. Arrange for extradition to their home countries.

3. Establish some sort of REAL border, not just a fictitious line in the desert where the US ends and Mexico begins. We are nearly 5 years past 9/11 and not once have we truly strengthened the borders properly.

4. Allow for foreign nationals from friendly countries to obtain work visas easier. I know several non-US Tpunks that would love to live and work in the States legally but are prevented because of rediculous INS bureacoracy. The process MUST be streamlined. Its too difficult as it is, making the idea of illegal immigration that much more tempting.

And now, once more, keep it clean, folks. Goof job so far. As a suggestion, if you want debate on this, I suggest visiting www.npboards.com and posting up there about it. (but be sure to intro yourself first. They don't like trolls

)

**Somnambulation** · 05-01-2006, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xanthuos@May 1 2006, 09:12 AM
I believe in free borders - however, that should only happen when a bunch of my other personal opinions come to fruition like no more income tax and no social services.* Then it doesn't matter when a person is "legal" or "illegal" because either way they aren't a "drain" on the system if there is nothing for them to take advantage of.

Exactly. There would really be no downside to open borders if there were no social programs to exploit. As it is now, it is not good policy to allow masses of poor to flood into the country. I dont necessarily blame the illigals themselves, they are just trying to better thier lives, but that doesnt mean we need to accept them. Since I dont see massive reform of our system of social programs, the only option is to build and a wall and crack down on employers of illegal workers. As for what to do about the Mexican govornemnt encouraging illegal immigration, Im not sure. We need to make them understand that we wont tolerate that type of thing.

**voyd** · 05-01-2006, 09:08 PM

Now, for the government manipulation twist on this issue:

Quote:

Today's massive immigration protests which are being afforded lavish and complimentary media attention were orchestrated by the Neo-Cons and the Bush administration and represent a fifth columnist movement openly intent on destroying America as we know it.

The agenda is multi-faceted and includes protecting government drug-running operations, balkanizing the US and lowering the standard of living, and inciting race riots that lead to the justification of martial law and internment procedures being implemented.

As we reported last month, in late December 2005, Mexican President Vicente Fox hired a lobbying firm to sweeten political sentiment in the US towards Mexicans and the immigration issue. The same PR expert and GOP political consultant helped George W. Bush defeat Ann Richards for the governorship of Texas in 1994 and worked on both Bush's presidential campaigns.

Granted, this is a sensationalized take on the matter - but it is not inconceivable to me in theory that the Feds could help create a "mess" - to allow itself to come in and take draconian control of it later on *cough* 9II *cough*. The idea here would be to create more racial/class stratification/segregation like modern-day California (a predictor for the US as a nation) - in order to justify a more S0cialist and eventually,

military state. As well as protecting a Federal drug pipeline across the border. Yes...all roads lead to the NW0!

Well, that would all be rather reductionist - but I don't think we should discount government Machiavellian manipulation as ONE possible factor of several here...

Of course, no point in also stating the obvious immediate motive of cheap labor that allows sidestepping of minimum wage & workers' rights laws...

**Joker** · 05-01-2006, 09:19 PM

Seriously, dude, the moonbat conspiracy theorist bullshit is rediculous.

Its like claiming that Bush and Big Oil orchestrated the whole 9/11 attacks for whatever reason, when he can't even cover up simple wire taps that were quasi-legitimate. Lay off the shit, bro.

**voyd** · 05-01-2006, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joker@May 1 2006, 10:19 PM
Its like claiming that Bush and Big Oil orchestrated the whole 9/11 attacks for whatever reason, when he can't even cover up simple wire taps that were quasi-legitimate. Lay off the shit, bro.
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Actually, I recently engaged in some pretty heavy debate on that issue - and have poured over dozens of sites and info on 9II in the process. Frankly, nobody should really even form an opinion on it until they've done at least a few weeks worth of exhaustive independent research on the topic. Due to the sheer amount of info - it really takes that long just to get a basic gist of what all may or may not have happened. And most haven't.

But, I have - and now personally believe that there is a good probability that it was set-up by PN@C ne0cons with some various international cohorts. This all would require a monster thread in itself though - as it involves a bit more than a Presidential BJ (which warranted months of Congressional investigation alone). So, looks like I may have to start one...

**goyincognito** · 05-01-2006, 09:49 PM

**Joker** · 05-01-2006, 09:58 PM

Frankly, I choose not to even attempt to argue with conspiracy moonbats. And you sir, are up there.

but i will say this:

FTR, if you are even attempting to use "Loose Change- Second Edition" as factual representation of what occurred on 9/11, you are out to lunch. I've personally debated both the host webmaster of that particular video and several others and it winds up being an endless circle jerk. All you moonbats are the same- you claim that there is this great conspiracy to defraud the American public and force them into war, yet once more how the hell could we pull off the murder of 3000+ people when we can't keep quasi-legal wiretaps under wraps, the identity of a potential CIA agent (Valerie Plame?) or for that matter, keep Iran Contra under wraps.

Justify your "exhaustive research" all you like but it amounts to no more than typical conspiracy theorist nonsense. If you exercised as much effort as you claim to have into positive channels, it'd be amazing what you could accomplish.

Now, if this doesn't go back to topic soon... well you know. This is a discussion about the immigration issue, and your unicorn-fart loaded conspiracy theories can take a back seat.

Cool?